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b-greek-digest V1 #824
b-greek-digest Tuesday, 15 August 1995 Volume 01 : Number 824
In this issue:
Phil. 2:7
www archives of b-greek threads
Re: Matt 16:13
Re: more on Jn 1:1c
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From: David Moore <dvdmoore@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us>
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 16:01:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Phil. 2:7
Larry Hurtado wrote:
>Working now on a short piece on Phil. 2:5-11, and required to produce my
>own translation, I'm wondering if others can help me in considering a
>novel, and possibly totally off-base translation option for v. 7--"en
>homoiomati anthropon geneomenos". There are good reasons for the more
>common understanding, as "homoiomati" referring to a "likeness" of the
>human Jesus to other humans. I'm wondering taking "en homoiomati
>anthropon" as modifying "genomenos" (taking "geneomenos" as = "born" as
>e.g., in Gal. 4:6). That is, could "en homoimati anthropon" mean "being
>born in human manner/fashion"??
There seem to be two questions that are key to Larry Hurtado's
proposed interpretation. One is whether GENOMENOS may be understood here
as meaning "born." This appears possible, either from the standpoint that
GINOMAI is often used in place of GENNAW to mean born, or from the
standpoint that single consonants are often found as variant spellings for
doubled consonants so that the word in Phil. 2:7 could be GENNOMENOS
spelled, rather, GENOMENOS (See, for instance, LXX, Ecl. 3:15 where MSS B
and S have GENOMENON and A has GENNWMENON).
The other question is whether EN hOMOIOMATI ANQRWPWN may be
understood as an adverbial phrase modifying the verbal sense of the
participle GENOMENOS (="born"). This latter question depends on the
normal usages of the word hOMOIWMA. But the usages we have for this word
do not seem to support it's use in reference to verbs, but, rather, always
in direct reference to nouns. In cases where hOMOIWMA is used without any
referent noun present, the noun is understood, or articular hOMOIWMA
serves in a substantival capacity itself (e.g. Rom. 6:5). It is
unlikely, in light of the above, that hOMOIOMATI in Phil. 2:7 could be
used in such a strong adverbial sense.
To sum up, IMO, any interpretation that would ascribe an adverbial
meaning to hOMOIWMA should be ruled out. GENOMENOS, however, could be
understood in the sense of "born," and possibly should be so construed in
order to avoid tautology with the followin g clause.
Regards,
David L. Moore Southeastern Spanish District
Miami, Florida of the Assemblies of God
dvdmoore@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us Department of Education
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From: Allen Kemp <avkemp@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 19:55:22 -0700
Subject: www archives of b-greek threads
Does anyone know if this server of B-greek offers a web access site
that can be searched by organized topic threads? So many of you offer
such great material I'd like to see and use collections of threads
based on topics. Thanks.
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From: LISATIA@aol.com
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 23:21:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Matt 16:13
dear Ken,
What do you say to be the cause of the trouble?" or "Whom do you say to be
the cause of it?" in English are two sentences with double accusatives in the
infinitive mode: "you say whom to be the cause of it." One is subject; one
is object. Examples are rare in English, because we don't regularly use the
infinitive for indirect discourse. By the way, whom do you expect to be the
next president?
best wishes, dick arthur Merrimack NH
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From: LISATIA@aol.com
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 23:47:26 -0400
Subject: Re: more on Jn 1:1c
dear Roland,,
thank you for your cogent comments and intelligent remarks on Jn 1.1.
With regard to the Watchtower translation of this verse, long a cause
celebre, and object of much abuse, something should be said by an outsider in
their defense.
You yourself, I believe, brought up verse eighteen of the same chapter,
which is printed in UBS 4th ed, as: monogenos qeos ho wn eis ton kolpon tou
patros ekeinos exHgHsato, . . . the only-begotten god who is in the womb of
the father - he has explained him.
The question of the christology of the Gospel of John, and the christology
of the prologue, which may not be the same question, cannot be explained
solely on the basis of grammar.
It is entirely possible that the original theology of the prologue was of
an Arian type. This is only one of many aporiai in this Gospel which seem to
indicate that source material and the final version of this Gospel are at
variance.
dick arthur, Merrimack NH
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End of b-greek-digest V1 #824
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