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b-greek-digest V1 #886
b-greek-digest Tuesday, 3 October 1995 Volume 01 : Number 886
In this issue:
Two or three questions in Matthew 24:3?
Re: DIA PERITOMHS PARABATHN NOMOU
Re: rel. pron. in Mt 21:35
Philistines vs. Foreigners
None
Re: Hebrews 10-26
Re > Keeping up
Re: Persius Project
Re: PISTIS in Romans 1, yet
style analysis corrections
re: Re: PISTIS in Romans 1, yet
Re: Greek numerals? (fwd)
A List of Greek Numerals
Re: Sturz's view on TC
Re: A List of Greek Numerals
Re: Greek numerals?
EGW EIMI in Mark 6:50
A List of Greek Numerals (Corrected)
Re: EGW EIMI in Mark 6:50
Re: Greek numerals?
Acts 2:42
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Alan M Feuerbacher <alanf@mdhost.cse.tek.com>
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 22:23:16 PDT
Subject: Two or three questions in Matthew 24:3?
Hi,
I have a question for you Greek scholars. In Matthew 24:3 Jesus'
disciples asked a question about the "end times":
When will these things be, and what will be the sign of Your
coming, and of the end of the age? (NASB)
This appears to consist of *three* separate questions. Many other
translations render the verse similarly. On the other hand, some
translations give an impression of abiguity, or that only *two*
questions were asked:
the sign of your coming and of the end of the age (NIV)
the sign of your coming and of the close of the age (RSV)
sign will there be of your coming and of the end of the world (NJB)
signal for your coming and the end of this world (Phillips)
the attesting miracle which will indicate your coming and the
consummation of the age (An Expanded Translation by Kenneth Wuest)
The literal Greek is:
ti to semeion tes ses parousias kai sunteleias tou aionos.
what the sign of your coming and of-conclusion of-the age.
Note that the word for "sign" (semeion) is singular. This implies to me
that the following two items joined by "and" ("kai") are just different
aspects of the same sign. In other words, the disciples asked about THE
sign of your-coming-and-the-conclusion-of-the-age.
For parallels in Mark and Luke we have:
When will these things be, and will be the sign when all these things
are going to be fulfilled? (Mark 13:4, NASB)
When therefore, will these things be? And what will be the sign when
these things are about to take place? (Luke 21:7, NASB)
Note that in both cases, it seems that the phrase "these things" refers
to what Matthew expanded on: "your coming and the end of the age." In
other words, the "sign" mentioned in all three gospel accounts is a
single (but composite) event.
What I would like are some general comments about the above, and in
particular, some kind of explanation about whether the grammatical
construction in Matthew 24:3 ("parousias kai sunteleias tou aionos")
is ambiguous or definite in connecting or not connecting "coming" and
"end of the age".
Thanks,
Alan Feuerbacher
alanf@mdhost.cse.tek.com
------------------------------
From: David Moore <dvdmoore@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 14:01:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: DIA PERITOMHS PARABATHN NOMOU
"Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu> wrote:
>It does seem to me that we cannot say, since Paul didn't use the accusative
>case with the DIA, that he meant the letter of the Law and circumcusion
>played a CAUSAL role in the Jew's violation of the Law. So what does the
>DIA with a genitive intend? I think: that he takes the "high road"--he goes
>BY WAY OF the letter of the Law and circumcision, and even so (hence your
>"in spite of," he breaks the Law. How would others care to explain the
>exact sense and usage of this DIA + genitive construction?
DIA with genitive to indicate cause is not usual, and in this
context (Rom. 2:27), does not seem to fit into Paul's line of reasoning.
DIA's sense here appears to indicate agency with part of the argument
understood and omitted by ellipsis.
Verses 25-27a and 28-29 discuss the matter of how one establishes
membership among the covenant people of God. The discussion of
circumcision here has to do with its purpose as a sign of membership in
the covenant people of God. Paul is saying that those who have believed
in Christ, whom Paul calls hO EN TWi KRUPTWi IOUDAIOS, KAI PERITOMH
KARDIAS EN PNEUMATI ..., are the legitimate members of this covenant
people. Their fulfilling the righteousness (DIKAIWMATA) of the Law
because of the work of Christ in their hearts is to be considered a better
sign of membership in the people of God than any literal, physical
circumcision.
What Paul is saying in v. 27 is that he who is physically (or: by
his birth as a Gentile) uncircumcised but fulfills the law will condemn
(by his righteous life) you who, (while seeking to establish your standing
as member of the people of God) by the letter of the law and by
circumcision, are (really) a transgressor of the law.
Cranfield (_The Epistle to the Romans_, Vol. 1, p. 174) takes the
DIA in v. 27 as of attendant circumstances (i.e. "with the Scripture and
circumcision"), but since the whole context is dealing with the means of
establishing membership in God's people, I find no compelling reason to
take it in the unusual sense for DIA of attendant circumstances.
David L. Moore Southeastern Spanish District
Miami, Florida of the Assemblies of God
dvdmoore@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us Department of Education
------------------------------
From: David Moore <dvdmoore@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us>
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 12:58:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: rel. pron. in Mt 21:35
On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, Carl W. Conrad wrote:
> At 10:01 AM 10/2/95, David Moore wrote:
> [I won't repeat the entire lengthy correspondence, with one exception]
>
> > There is a factor that has not been taken into consideration in
> >either Carl's analysis or in that presented by Mark Durie, but it is
> >key to understanding this passage.
> >
> > Philip is correct in noting that v. 36 is a continuation of the
> >thoughts begun in v. 35, but he is not correct in thinking that the
> >participle LABONTES should agree with the subject of the following
> >verb. The relationship indicated is one of time, not of personal
> >identity. The aorist tense of the participle LABONTES indicates here
> >that the incidents of mistreatment of the owner's messengers had
> >already taken place when he sent other of his servants.
> >
> > This factor is integral to the story of the parable, since
> >finally, and with full knowledge of the tenants actions, the owner
> >sends his own son (v. 37).
>
> Actually I think this reading of LABONTES _is_ there in my original
> response to Phil, viz.:
>
> > ... I think the
> > sense of the construction might best be conveyed thus: "And the
> > vine-dressers took the slaves, of whom they flayed one, killed one, and
> > stoned one." It is a common narrative device in Greek to use a participle
> > (or two or three) in the aorist and then an indicative to indicate a
> > sequence of actions where English would prefer to use coordinate
> > indicatives, as I have done in effect in my version above.
>
You are quite right. Pardon my oversight in not noting it in my
previous post.
David L. Moore Southeastern Spanish District
Miami, Florida of the Assemblies of God
dvdmoore@dcfreenet.seflin.lib.fl.us Department of Education
------------------------------
From: Carolivia Herron <cherron@div.harvard.edu>
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 06:11:19 +0000
Subject: Philistines vs. Foreigners
October 3, 1995
I'm reading 1 Chronicles in Hebrew and in the Septuagint,
and I'm wondering if there is some political (or other)
reason why the Septuagint uses the Greek work for
foreigner to translate the word Philistine. Can
someone help me in this?
Thanks,
Carolivia Herron
Harvard Divinity School and Hebrew College
cherron@div.harvard.edu
The corridor of the future is long,
is it perhaps infinite.
------------------------------
From: Mark Durie <Mark_Durie@muwayf.unimelb.edu.au>
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 22:01:20 +1000
Subject: None
REGARDING None
subscribe
------------------------------
From: Karen Pitts <karen_pitts@maca.sarnoff.com>
Date: 3 Oct 1995 09:29:44 U
Subject: Re: Hebrews 10-26
Re> Hebrews 10:26 10/3/95 9:21 AM
At 12:28 PM 10/2/95, Paul Watkins wrote: (and Ron Stephens / CLCC@pacifier.com
forwarded)
>As my knowledge of Greek grammar is not yet sufficient to answer this next
>question, please forgive my ignorance: in Hebrews 10:26 where does the word
>"if" come in? "Ekousiws gar hamartanontwn hemwn" (am I spelling that right
in
>English?) - is it inherent in the declension of one of those words? If so,
>which class does the protasis fall into? Theologically, I would expect a 2nd
>class condition but I'm not knowledgable enough to determine if that is so.
>
>Please write to me directly, as I am not currently subscribed to the list.
>
>
>Paul Watkins
>Grace College and Seminary
>
Ron and Paul:
I don't have any references here at work so I can't answer the "eike"
question. The other phrase from Hebrews is a construction called a Genitive
Absolute, with participles in the genitive case. In this case both the
subject and the verb (participle) are in the genitive case. These
constructions frequently indicate causal issues, such as "because, since,
although, if, when", which is where the "if" comes from, and also indicate the
subject of the dependent clause is different from the independent. If you
look up the introduction of participles and look for the words "gentitive
absolute" in any grammar, you'll find a more detailed explanation.
Karen Pitts
Hopewell Pres. Church, Hopewell, N.J., teacher of NT Greek
David Sarnoff Research Center, Princeton, N.J., statistician
kpitts@sarnoff.com
------------------------------
From: Karen Pitts <karen_pitts@maca.sarnoff.com>
Date: 3 Oct 1995 09:45:16 U
Subject: Re > Keeping up
Re > Keeping up 10/3/95 9:33 AM
On 9/22/95, Rick Brannan wrote:
>Anyway, I find myself in constant need of review and really have little idea
>about how to effectively review/keep up the knowledge base. If anyone has
>any suggestions concerning books or tools that they have found helpful in
>keeping up, I would appreciate the recommendations, as well information on
>where I might locate them. Specifically, help with grammatical and
>syntactical issues (yeah, I know -- that's kind of broad) would be
>appreciated.
Rick:
I've been waiting for someone else to reply to your request, but haven't seen
any traffic. This is how I keep up.
1) I teach an Introduction to NT Greek at my church. It keeps me current with
all the syntax, vocab, forms, etc., or at least the part that I'm teaching
that week.
2) I get together with several others (2-4) to read through some part of
either the Greek New Testament or the Septuagint. We probably meet, on
average, every other week (no summer, no advent, other breaks as we can't
manage our schedules). We all read through the passage on our own, and then
when we get together, we translate a sentence or a paragraph at a time, and
discuss our different readings. We frequently parse or defend gramatically
our translation.
3) I browse grammars. I have three introductory grammars and Symth (advanced
classical grammar), one intermediate grammar, and am considering purchasing a
couple of other intermediate grammars.
4) There are some internet helps, but they are mostly for beginners. I got
Bill Mounce's Greek Hangman, which is fun, but vocab. based. I also have
something called Patricia's Greek, which is a hypercard stack with vocab in
frequency order, which is helpful for vocab. Dallas Theological Seminary has
a lot of stuff on line as well (Theos Tutor), but I've not used it. If you
want any of these, I can go find the addresses.
Good luck,
Karen Pitts
Hopewell Presbyterian Church, Hopewell, NJ, teacher of NT Greek
David Sarnoff Research Center, Princeton, NJ, statistician
kpitts@sarnoff.com
------------------------------
From: Travis Bauer <bauer@acc.jc.edu>
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 09:30:09 -35900
Subject: Re: Persius Project
On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, Larry Chouinard wrote:
>
> Could any please provide the address for the Persius Project out of Tufts
> University?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Larry Chouinard
>
>
>
Perseus' homepage is: http://perseus.tufts.edu
I have a link to it on my homepage at:
http://acc.jc.edu/~bauer/index.html
/-----------------------------------------------------------------
/ Travis Bauer / If all the world's philosophers were laid /
/ Jamestown College / end to end, would they reach a conclusion? /
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Mark O'Brien <Mark_O'Brien@dts.edu>
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 95 10:27:14 CST
Subject: Re: PISTIS in Romans 1, yet
Original message sent on Mon, Oct 2 2:38 AM by eweiss@acf.dhhs.gov (Eric Weiss)
:
> All I can say is that I would think that what Paul means by
> the "EK PISTEWS" part should probably be akin to what it means in
> Habbakuk 2:4 (in the Greek) ... which leaves EIS PISTEWS and what
> the whole phrase means still up for debate.
Interestingly, the word used in the Hebrew of Hab 2:4 is )EMW.NFH
(did I get that transliteration right?!?) which, although translated as
"faith" by most versions, is probably better translated as
"faithfulness". A word-study of all the occurences of this word
indicates that it is unlikely that it should be rendered as "faith", and
yet this is how the NT takes it on at least three occasions when
quoting this passage (Ro 1:17; Gal 3:11; Heb 10:38). One could argue
that the NT writers were using the LXX, but that has MOU modifying
PISTEWS (if my memory serves me correctly), which seems to imply
that the LXX folks took this faith to be *God's* faith in Hab 2:4, which
is not quite the way in which the NT is using the verse. All in all, it's
a curious point to be pondered.
Mark O'Brien
------------------------------
From: D Mealand <ewnt05@castle.ed.ac.uk>
Date: 03 Oct 95 16:56:23 BST
Subject: style analysis corrections
The advice to read Nigel Turner in Vol 4 of Moulton and Howard should be
severely qualified. There are severe criticisms of this work in Greg
Horsley's 5th vol of New Documents. there are more carefully expressed
criticisms with detailed refutations in my article in ZNW c 1991 on
Hellenistic historians and the Style of Acts (Vol 82 pp.42-66).
That Mark uses kai frequently is often observed. Recent work I have been
doing shows at least two 500 word samples of Mark which are light on kai and
use de more than the rest of Mark. This same work shows that style in Mark
varies between healings, other narratives, apophthegms and logia. But this
is work in progress.
On Ephesians some of the differences in style can be inferred
from the plots and other details in my article 'The Extent of the Pauline
Corpus' due out any week now from JSNT
I would give refs to toehr work by others but our system is just due for
and interrupt!
David M.
**************************1/1995********************************************
David L. Mealand * E-mail: David.Mealand@ed.ac.uk
University of Edinburgh * Office Fax: (+44)-131-650-6579
Scotland, U.K. EH1 2LX * Office tel.:(+44)-131-650-8917 or 8921
------------------------------
From: Eric Weiss <eweiss@acf.dhhs.gov>
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 95 11:55:45 -24000
Subject: re: Re: PISTIS in Romans 1, yet
Since you reference my post, this gives me a chance to make a correction and a
comment(s).
I erred and meant to write EIS PISTIN, not EIS PISTEWS, for the last part of
Romans 1:17. Please realize that it was another person who asked about the
meaning of Romans 1:17, and I just gave a response, quoting from Richard
Young's grammar.
Yes, I am aware of the point(s) you raise. "The righteous will live by his
faithfulness." The two relevant questions are: 1) should the Hebrew word be
translated "faith" or should it be translated "faithfulness"; and 2) is this
about a1) the righteous person's faith in God or a2) faithfulness to God, or
about b) God's ("His" rather than "his") faithfulness toward the righteous
person?
(The same could possibly be said about Genesis 15:6--did God credit
righteousness to Abraham, or did Abraham credit righteousness to God; what do
the pronouns/verbs refer to? The importance of these textual/linguistic
questions for Christian theology are profound, because they imply a misreading
or misunderstanding of the text(s) by Paul, and these are crucial texts for
him.)
Another question, which you raise, has to do with what texts were used by Paul
for his citation--LXX, a non-proto-Masoretic Hebrew text, or what?
Support for Paul, though, comes from a surprising place (at least I was
surprised to see this). In Geza Vermes translation of the Dead Sea Scrolls, if
my memory serves me well, he translates this part of the Habbakuk
pesher/commentary as "the righteous shall live by faith"--i.e., his faith in
the Teacher of Righteousness. Apparently the Qumran scribes/community believed
the meaning of Habbakuk 2:4 was "faith" in the Teacher of Righteousness rather
than "faithfulness" to the Teacher of Righteousness. A recent reprint of
Ringgerer's(?) 30-year-old book on the theology of Qumran, (preface by James
Charlesworth), which I skimmed last week, addresses this comment on Habbakuk in
a way, if I recall, which downplays the salvific ability of the Teacher of
Righteousness, but I don't think it disagreed with the idea of having faith in
that person (versus faithfulness to him).
What do you think?
------------------------------
From: Bill Mounce <billm@teknia.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:14:00 -0700
Subject: Re: Greek numerals? (fwd)
I list many numerals in my morphology, p. 247. The Morphology of Biblical
Greek, Zondervan.
Bill Mounce
- -------------------------------
Teknia Software, Inc.
1306 W. Bellwood Drive
Spokane, WA 99218-2911
Internet: billm@teknia.com (preferred)
AOL: Mounce
CIS: 71540,2140 (please, only if necessary)
"It may be Greek to you, but it is life to me."
------------------------------
From: Bruce Terry <terry@bible.acu.edu>
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 13:52:43 CST
Subject: A List of Greek Numerals
Here is a presentation of Greek numerals as often found:
1 alpha 10 iota 100 rho
2 beta 20 kappa 200 sigma
3 gamma 30 lambda 300 tau
4 delta 40 mu 400 upsilon
5 epsilon 50 nu 500 phi
6 stigma/digamma 60 xi 600 chi
7 zeta 70 omicron 700 psi
8 eta 80 pi 800 omega
9 iota 90 koppa 900 sampi
Numerals were often distinquished from letters by putting a mark above them.
Numerals in the thousands were written by putting a mark below them instead of
above them.
Note that the alphabet was enhanced by the addition of 3 or 4 older letters:
either stigma or digamma for 6; koppa for 90; and sampi for 900.
Names could be assigned number values as in the following example:
IHSOUS = 10 + 8 + 200 + 70 + 400 + 200 = 888
No wonder the early Christians said that they met to celebrate Christ's
resurrection on the 8th day of the week!
********************************************************************************
Bruce Terry E-MAIL: terry@bible.acu.edu
Box 8426, ACU Station Phone: 915/674-3759
Abilene, Texas 79699 Fax: 915/674-3769
********************************************************************************
------------------------------
From: "Michael W. Holmes" <holmic@homer.acs.bethel.edu>
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 14:04:48 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Sturz's view on TC
Re the postings about Harry Sturz's views of the Byzantine text:
Sturz did demonstrate that _some_ Byzantine _readings_ are ancient--but
G. Zuntz had already demonstrated that back in 1946 in his Schweich
lectures. Sturz did _not_ demonstrate anything about the antiquity of
the Byzantine _text-type_, i.e., a recognizable and distinctive pattern
of readings. The earliest evidence for the Byzantine text-type is likely
Chrysostom. For more details re these points, see my review of Sturz in
_Trinity Journal_ 6 (1985) 225-228. The short take on it: what is
persuasive in it is not new, and what is new is not persuasive.
------------------------------
From: Mike Adams <mikadams@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 13:41:09 -0700
Subject: Re: A List of Greek Numerals
9 iota; 10 iota??
howbout 9 theta; 10 iota?
Ellen
P.S. Neat chart otherwise. Thanks!
------------------------------
From: Timster132@aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 17:01:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Greek numerals?
Will Wagers <wagers@computek.net> writes:
> In Greek, we find the achrophonic system, which yields to the
>alphabetic system about 300 BCE. Possibly a Greek invention, the
>alphabetic system requires special punctuation, e.g. spaces on boths
>sides of the number, an overline over it, or some other special
>punctuation symbol. (Minoan also uses modified symbols to represent
> powers).
Was this the origin or did this influence the later use of sacra nomina by
Christians in the mss?
In XP,
Tim Staker
Timster132@aol.com
------------------------------
From: Bruce Terry <terry@bible.acu.edu>
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 16:24:05 CST
Subject: EGW EIMI in Mark 6:50
On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, Larry W. Hurtado wrote:
>Bruce, My point in citing the passages in Isa 42-45 where the LXX has
>"ego eimi" as a self-referential formula of God was that the formula is
>such, and I never suggested it was a translation of YHWH. That's a
>red-herring.
You are right about EGW EIMI being a self-referential formula of God in the
LXX of Isa. 42-45. It was someone else who suggested that it was a
translation of YHWH. Perhaps they only meant to say that EGW EIMI was YHWH's
way of referring to Himself, and I wouldn't disagree with that. Sometimes
people don't write precisely what they mean, even on B-Greek :).
>The point is that the appearances of "ego eimi" in
>theophanic contexts such as Mk 6 (storm-stilling miracle, just the sort
>of thing God does e.g., in Ps 107, etc.) might well have been intended to
>allude to the Greek of Isa 42-45 for lst cent. readers of the Greek of
>Mark. (And part of the argument depends upon reading Mark in Greek, and
>having as one's "bible" the Greek OT and being thus able to catch
>allusions without having to ransack a concordance!).
> I quite applaud your emphasis that words and phrases have their
>meaning in contexts, and can vary from one to another. Precisely.
>It's the appearance of this "ego eimi" formula in a narrative episode
>that seems theophanic, and in a larger narrative (Mark) that seems
>intent on asserting for Jesus a divine-like transcendent significance
>-- all this leads me to find in the particular "ego eimi" of Mark 6
>something more than "It's me boys".
Here is where I think our point of disagreement is. I understand EGW EIMI to
be such a common way of self-reference by *any* potential speaker that I am
not at all sure that Mark and/or his readers would have seen it as a sign of
divinity. To be sure, Mark understood Jesus to be the Son of God (1:1),
although there are both people on this list and people in the ancient world
who would not equate that term with YHWH (Personally I have no problem in
doing so). But part of what is going on in Mark is that at least until
Peter's pivotal confession in 8:29, the disciples do not understand who Jesus
is. In retrospect, one might say that this is a theophany, but then one might
say that about the whole gospel of Mark. If this is a theophany, it had poor
results. We do not see the reactions of Gen. 32:30; Judg. 6:22; 13:22; Isa.
6:5. In fact, Mark goes out of his way to point out that although the
disciples were completely astounded (Greek LIAN [EK PERISSOU] EN hEAUTOIS
EXISTANTO) by this event, it still brought no understanding to them, for their
hearts were hardened (6:51-52).
Since words and phrases take their particular meaning from context, I would
like to see something in this context that would make me think that Mark
intended EGW EIMI to be a divine self-reference. The only thing favoring such
an understanding that I can see is that I know from other passages that Jesus
is God and that God sometimes refers to himself by EGW EIMI. But that is all
within myself, not within the context of *this passage*. It looks to me like
that if I should adopt such an understanding, I would be reading meaning in
from other passages. This is good rabbinic understanding, and may even preach
well, but I am not comfortable with it exegetically.
Further, there is good reason to believe that this wording lies behind Mark in
the oral preaching of the apostles. The quote from Jesus is exactly the same
in Matthew and Mark and most of the words appear in the same exact order in
John's gospel as well; only QARSEITE is omitted there. Matthew, at least,
does not seem to understand EGW EIMI to be divine self-reference, because he
relates that Peter replies, EI SU EI ("if you are," i.e., "if it is you").
My thanks goes to Mikeal Parsons, who, while disagreeing with me, points out
that EGW EIMI is used by non-divine individuals in Mark 13:36 (false Christs)
and John 9:9 (the blind man). To that list one can add Luke 21:8 (parallel to
Mark 13:36) and Acts 26:29 (Paul). In the LXX Isaiah uses the term in Isa.
6:8 to respond to God's call. The apostles used the phrase in question form
in Matt. 26:22 and Judas alone in another question in verse 25; they were
hardly asking if they were divine.
Tim Staker provides some interesting parallels in a hymn to Isis, but I doubt
that they have much bearing on this question since none of them have EGW EIMI
alone. One finds the same kind of constructions in Matt. 24:5 (false
Christs), Luke 1:18 (Zechariah), 19 (the angel Gabriel), Acts 10:21 (Peter);
and 22:3 (Paul). Dare I add the angel Raphael to the list (Tobit 12:15).
This is just a construction to say what one is, whether God, goddesses,
angels, or men.
I hesitate to see in a term more than what the context calls for. That is why
I doubt that EGW EIMI is a self-revelation of divinity in Mark 6:50. And I
think that I can claim that all major English translations except the
Amplified Bible (is that a major translation?) agree with me that the weaker
sense of the phrase is what is in use here.
********************************************************************************
Bruce Terry E-MAIL: terry@bible.acu.edu
Box 8426, ACU Station Phone: 915/674-3759
Abilene, Texas 79699 Fax: 915/674-3769
********************************************************************************
------------------------------
From: Bruce Terry <terry@bible.acu.edu>
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 16:35:05 CST
Subject: A List of Greek Numerals (Corrected)
Thanks to Ellen, here is a corrected version of this number chart.
Here is a presentation of Greek numerals as often found:
1 alpha 10 iota 100 rho
2 beta 20 kappa 200 sigma
3 gamma 30 lambda 300 tau
4 delta 40 mu 400 upsilon
5 epsilon 50 nu 500 phi
6 stigma/digamma 60 xi 600 chi
7 zeta 70 omicron 700 psi
8 eta 80 pi 800 omega
9 theta 90 koppa 900 sampi
Numerals were often distinquished from letters by putting a mark above them.
Numerals in the thousands were written by putting a mark below them instead of
above them.
Note that the alphabet was enhanced by the addition of 3 or 4 older letters:
either stigma or digamma for 6; koppa for 90; and sampi for 900.
Names could be assigned number values as in the following example:
IHSOUS = 10 + 8 + 200 + 70 + 400 + 200 = 888
No wonder the early Christians said that they met to celebrate Christ's
resurrection on the 8th day of the week!
********************************************************************************
Bruce Terry E-MAIL: terry@bible.acu.edu
Box 8426, ACU Station Phone: 915/674-3759
Abilene, Texas 79699 Fax: 915/674-3769
********************************************************************************
------------------------------
From: "Larry W. Hurtado" <hurtado@cc.umanitoba.ca>
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 17:56:51 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: EGW EIMI in Mark 6:50
Well, Bruce Terry, I quite agree that we must be bound by the context,
and I've given contextual matters in Mk 6 that lead me to think a double
entendre lies in the "ego eimi". You see the context differently. Fair
enough. But our disagreement isn't over whether to read words
contextually; it is over how we read the context!
Larry Hurtado, Religion, Univ. of Manitoba
------------------------------
From: Will Wagers <wagers@computek.net>
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 21:08:14 -0600
Subject: Re: Greek numerals?
>Will Wagers <wagers@computek.net> writes:
>
>> In Greek, we find the achrophonic system, which yields to the
>>alphabetic system about 300 BCE. Possibly a Greek invention, the
>>alphabetic system requires special punctuation, e.g. spaces on boths
>>sides of the number, an overline over it, or some other special
>>punctuation symbol. (Minoan also uses modified symbols to represent
>> powers).
>
> Was this the origin or did this influence the later use of sacra nomina by
>Christians in the mss?
>
> In XP,
>
> Tim Staker
> Timster132@aol.com
I was referring to the possible origin of the alphabetic system as being
Greek. If I understand the question, in a system where letters are
numerals, obviously writers are going to take advantage of the fact, at
times, to express mystical truths, to write cryptographically for secrecy,
and, merely, to amuse themselves and delight the reader with
correspondences.
10-4,
Will
Will wagers@computer.net
------------------------------
From: Chris Flanders <cfland@ds90.intanon.nectec.or.th>
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 09:41:17 +0700 (TST)
Subject: Acts 2:42
Do the references to "breaking bread" in the book of Acts point to
simple table fellowship, the or is this a technical Lucan term for the
Eucharist? In particular I am curious if the articular infinitive in "te
klasei" provides a special sense as opposed to the simple infinitive of say
20:7? Granted that the Eucharist was most likely a part of an agape meal
in early Christendom - what, if any, difference does the articular inft.
make in Acts 2:24?
Chris Flanders
cfland@ds90.intanon.nectec.or.th
------------------------------
End of b-greek-digest V1 #886
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