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b-greek-digest V1 #1
b-greek-digest Saturday, 11 November 1995 Volume 01 : Number 001
In this issue:
Re: Romans 5:1-6
Re: Grammatical Tense, LEGW,
Electronic Citation
NT Text Criticism
Fwd: Romans 5:1-6
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: JClar100@aol.com
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:47:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Romans 5:1-6
After receiving Carl Conrad's comments I went back and
reread one of the older grammars (Summers) on the use
of the "intermediate agent" reflected by the genitive case.
Summers, using the additional case system, makes this
ablative rather than genitive. I also found an interesting
comment on this is Dunn's work on Romans.
So, if Carl and others are right then "Jesus Christ ('HSOU
CHRISTOU == ablative or genitive) is the agent
through whom God 'gives' us peace (EIRHNH)."
Maurice O'Sullivan's statement based on the Louw-Nida
Lexicon seems to contradict Conrad's understanding of ASQENWN
(verse 6) as "moral incapacitation." Nevertheless, the translation,
"when we could not do anything about it," appears to give the
sense of the text, though it doesn't make a moral evaluation.
JClar100@aol.com
James Clardy
------------------------------
From: Kenneth Litwak <kenneth@sybase.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 1995 10:04:22 +0800
Subject: Re: Grammatical Tense, LEGW,
Following up Karen's comment,
> Greek is so sloppy, that I don't know that I'd place any importance on the
> tenses he uses, especially imperfect vs. aorist. He commonly uses imperfect
> where the other writers use aorist.
>
> Karen Pitts
> Hopewell Presbyterian Church, Hopewell, NJ, teacher of NT Greek
> David Sarnoff Research Center, Princeton, NJ, statistician
> kpitts@sarnoff.com
>
>
I have noticed in reading Mark that he seems to very readily mix tense
forms (whatever significance they have). Porter says in his _Idioms_
book that the present is used in narrative for dramatic effect and to
emphasize changes in story-line. My reading of Mark, such as 8:22-0:1, has
not given me that impression. I'm not criticizing Mark's Greek per se, but I
don't see a rhyme or reason to his mixing of tense forms. This seems to
evident to me that I am questioning exegetical decisions based on the choice
of tense. I am also wondering, while I'm writing this, if those more
knowledgeable than I in Greek lit. in general would attach significance to
1. the use of de. In 7:24-30, Gundry, in his (may I say "masterful", at
least impressive) commentary on Mark makes much of the occurences of
adversative de in this passage. I'm not sure I'd put that much weight on
this particle. It seems to me to just be how Greek sentences are linked
together, and is of little or no significance. I would grant that to alla,
but not to de.
2. Since Greek work order is not fixed in any significant way that I have
seen (though my sample size may be too limited, as I've not ventured much
outside the NT heretofore), I question Gundry's comments on the significance
of word order. I would accept that in Hebrew SOV is an emphatic word order,
but in Greek, that could be business as usual. Can we really draw significance
in Greek from word order?
I'm not trying to take a strong stand here, as I admit to having a limited
database of experience from which to draw (the NT and a tiny bit of the LXX).
Ken Litwak
GTU
Bezerkley, CA
------------------------------
From: "Edgar M. Krentz" <emkrentz@mcs.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:47:03 -0500
Subject: Electronic Citation
I posted this earlier, then learned thatmost of us had to resubscribe
because of a computer glitch. Thanks to BRUCE TERRY for calling it to my
attention. Since I was not getting the B-greek postings, I do not know
whetcher the following got to people on the list. So I am reposting it,
with apologies to those for whom it is a duplication.
********************
I saw this posted on another discussion group. thought it might be
interesting, since we had a string on citing materials on b-greek recently.
I intend to share this with students at our seminary. And, yes, I do have
permission to post it, as the following shows:
From: "Mel Page" <PAGEM@ETSUARTS.EAST-TENN-ST.EDU>
Organization: East Tennessee State University
To: emkrentz@mcs.com (Edgar M. Krentz)
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 21:41:45 GMT-5
Subject: Re: Internet Citation Guide
Thanks for the interest! Indeed, feel free to repost the guide. I
will add your name to a list of interested people to whom I will send
updates of the Guide. Indeed, one is likely in the next two or
three weeks.
Mel Page
**************************************************
* A BRIEF CITATION GUIDE FOR *
* INTERNET SOURCES IN HISTORY AND THE HUMANITIES *
**************************************************
by
Melvin E. Page
<pagem@etsuarts.east-tenn-st.edu>
for
H-AFRICA <h-africa@msu.edu>
Humanities-on-Line
and
History Department
East Tennessee State University
The following suggestions for citations of Internet sources in
history and the historically based humanities are derived from the
essential principles of academic citation in Kate L. Turabian,
*A Manual for Writers of Term Papers, Theses, and Dissertations,
*5th ed. (Chicago, University of Chicago Press, 1987). I have also
draw upon suggestions from some of the works listed below. The
guide has been improved by the the students of my Historical
Methods classes at East Tennessee State University and my fellow
H-AFRICA editors whom I thank for their assistance.
Since the Internet is an evolving institution, this guide is not
intended to be definitive. Corrections, additions, comments,
suggestions, and criticisms are therefore welcome. Please address
them to the author at:
pagem@etsuarts.east-tenn-st.edu
When the need for revisions and updates become apparent, new versions
of the guide will be issued.
=======================
Bibliographic Citations
=======================
Basic citation components and punctuation
*****************************************
Author's Last Name, First Name. [author's internet address, if
available]. "Title of Work" or "title line of message." In
"Title of Complete Work" or title of list/site as appropriate.
[internet address]. Date, if available.
The samples below indicate how citations of particular electronic
sources might be made.
Listserv Messages
*****************
Walsh, Gretchen. [gwalsh@acs.bu.edu]. "REPLY: Using African
newspapers in teaching." In H-AFRICA. [h-africa@msu.edu].
18 October 1995.
World Wide Web
**************
Limb, Peter. "Relationships between Labour & African Nationalist/
Liberation Movements in Southern Africa." [http://neal.ctstateu.
edu/history/world_history/archives/limb-l.html]. May 1992.
FTP Site
********
Heinrich, Gregor. [100303.100@compuserve.com]. "Where There Is
Beauty, There is Hope: Sau Tome e Principe." [ftp.cs.ubc.ca/
pub/local/FAQ/african/gen/saoep.txt]. July 1994.
Gopher Site
***********
"Democratic Party Platform, 1860." [wiretap.spies.com Wiretap Online
Library/civic & Historical/Political Platforms of the U.S.]
18 June 1860.
Kirshenblatt-Gimblett, Barbara. "Making Difference." [gopher.uic.edu
The Researcher/History/H-Net/H-Amstdy (American Studies)/Essays &
Discussions About American Studies]. 20 July 1995.
Usenet Group Messages
*********************
Dell, Thomas. [dell@wiretap.spies.com]. "[EDTECH] EMG: Sacred Texts
(Networked Electronic Versions)." In [alt.etext]. 4 February
1993.
Legg, Sonya. [legg@harquebus.cgd.ucar.edu]. "African history book
list." In [soc.culture.african]. 5 September 1994.
E-mail Messages
***************
Page, Mel. [pagem@etsuarts.east-tenn-st.edu]. "African dance...and
Malawi." Private e-mail message to Masankho Banda, [mbanda@igc.
apc.org]. 28 November 1994.
==============================
Footnote and Endnote Citations
==============================
Basic citation components and punctuation
*****************************************
<note number> Author's First name and Last name, [author's
internet address, if available], "Title of Work" or "title line
of message," in "Title of Complete Work" or title of list/site as
appropriate, [internet address], date if available.
The examples below indicate how citations of particular electronic
sources might be made.
Listserv Messages
*****************
<1> Gretchen Walsh, [gwalsh@acs.bu.edu], "REPLY: Using African
newspapers in teaching," in H-AFRICA, [h-africa@msu.edu], 18 October
1995.
World Wide Web
**************
<2> Peter Limb, "Relationships between Labour & African
Nationalist/Liberation Movements in Southern Africa," [http://neal.
ctstateu.edu/history/world_history/archives/limb-l.html], May 1992.
FTP Site
********
<3> Gregor Heinrich, [100303.100@compuserve.com], "Where There Is
Beauty, There is Hope: Sao Tome e Principe," [ftp.cs.ubc.ca/pub/
local/FAQ/african/gen/saoep.txt], July 1994.
<4> Sonya Legg, [legg@harquebus.cgd.ucar.edu], "African history
book list," in [soc.culture.african], 5 September 1994.
Gopher Site
***********
<5> "Democratic Party Platform, 1860," [wiretap.spies.com
Wiretap Online Library/civic & Historical/Political Platforms of the
U.S.], 18 June 1860.
<6> Barbara Kirshenblatt-Gimblett, "Making Difference,"
[gopher.uic.edu The Researcher/History/H-Net/H-Amstdy (American
Studies)/Essays & Discussions About American Studies], 20 July 1995.
Usenet Group Messages
*********************
<7>Thomas Dell, [dell@wiretap.spies.com] "[EDTECH] EMG: Sacred
Texts (Networked Electronic Versions)," in [alt.etext], 4 February
1993.
E-Mail Messages
***************
<8> Mel Page, [pagem@etsuarts.east-tenn-st.edu], "African
dance...and Malawi," private e-mail message to Masankho Banda,
[mbanda@igc.apc.org], 28 November 1994.
================================================
Additional Source Material on Internet Citations
================================================
Dodd, Sue A. "Bibliographic References for Computer Files in the
Social Sciences: A Discussion Paper." [gopher://info.monash.
edu.au:70/00/handy/cites]. Revised May 1990. {Published in
*IASSIST Quarterly*, 14, 2(1990): 14-17.}
Li, Xia and Nancy Crane. *Electronic Style: A Guide to Citing
Electronic Information*. Westport: Meckler, 1993.
University of Chicago Press *Chicago Guide to Preparing Electronic
Manuscripts: for Authors and Publishers*. Chicago: University
of Chicago Press, 1987.
Walker, Janice R. "MLA-Style Citations of Internet Sources."
[http://www.cas.usf.edu/english/walker/janice.html].
April 1995.
*********************************************************************
version 1.1 30 October 1995
*********************************************************************
Copyright Melvin E. Page, 1995.
This document may be reproduced and redistributed, but only in its
entirety and with full acknowledgement of its source and authorship.
*********************************************************************
Hope you find this useful.
Edgar Krentz, New Testament
Lutheran School of Theology at Chicago
Tel.: 312-256-0752; (H) 312-947-8105
------------------------------
From: "Edgar M. Krentz" <emkrentz@mcs.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:47:20 -0500
Subject: NT Text Criticism
I am resubmitting this, since It may have been lost in the subscription
problem. Pardon the duplication.
***************
Some tiome ago there was a thread that spoke of collating NT MSS and
entering them on computers.
People interested in this type of project might want to look at the report
by Paul R. McReynolds: "Announcement: International Greek New Testament
Project A Progress Report" in _Novum Testamentum_ 37,3 (July 1995) 301.
He reports that the team has collated 21 uncials andcompleted 69 minuscule
collations, with 11 electronic collations. They have developed a software
program for collating MSS. He also says: "Indeed, the work even as it
progreses cn be made available." The Ancient Biblical Manuscript Center in
Claremont, CA is serving as the repository. He also states the need for
additional volunteer collators. If interested, check out the article.
The most recent report from the Muenster Institute for NT Textual studies,
covering the years 1992-1994, was also published in mid-1995. It contains a
report on the work of the institute, an article on the textual history of
the Syriac Harkeleian NT, an article on the methodology of evaluating the
text of citations in church fathers, and a list of publications currently
available.
Edgar Krentz, New Testament
Lutheran School of Theology at Chicago
Tel.: 312-256-0752; (H) 312-947-8105
------------------------------
From: JClar100@aol.com
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 00:33:45 -0500
Subject: Fwd: Romans 5:1-6
- ---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj: Re: Romans 5:1-6
Date: 95-11-10 16:37:22 EST
From: JClar100
To: cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu
CC: b-greek@virginia.edu,mauros@iol.ie
After receiving Carl Conrad's comments I went back and
reread one of the older grammars (Summers) on the use
of the "intermediate agent" reflected by the genitive case.
Summers, using the additional case system, makes this
ablative rather than genitive. I also found an interesting
comment on this is Dunn's work on Romans.
So, if Carl and others are right then "Jesus Christ ('HSOU
CHRISTOU == ablative or genitive) is the agent
through whom God 'gives' us peace (EIRHNH)."
Maurice O'Sullivan's statement based on the Louw-Nida
Lexicon seems to contradict Conrad's understanding of ASQENWN
(verse 6) as "moral incapacitation." Nevertheless, the translation,
"when we could not do anything about it," appears to give the
sense of the text, though it doesn't make a moral evaluation.
JClar100@aol.com
James Clardy
------------------------------
End of b-greek-digest V1 #1
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