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b-greek-digest V1 #56
b-greek-digest Sunday, 24 December 1995 Volume 01 : Number 056
In this issue:
Birthday/baptism and chronology
Re: Birthday/baptism and chronology
Re: Birthday/baptism and chronology
Re: Birthday/baptism and chronology
Re: Birthday/baptism and chronology
Holiday Greetings
Re: Are you being habitually unsubscribed from this LIST? Read this!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Timothy Bratton <bratton@acc.jc.edu>
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 00:16:28 -36000
Subject: Birthday/baptism and chronology
On Friday, 22 Dec. 1995, Roger Andersson ST/BE <etxroan@
flipper.ericsson.se> wrote:
>A bit late, isn't it? (1.966 years, and some months)
>And can it really be said that Christ was born? He didn't
>become christ (anointed) until he had been baptized, and at
>the time he was a full-grown man. I know this about being
>born again, when dedicating oneself to serve God, but what we
>see at this time of year is that they try to celebrate the
>birth of Jesus (Why?) and show him as a small child, and he
>was certainly not Christ when he was born as a human.
>PS. Hence, our use of BC is misleading, considering what it
>really means (Before Christ). In Swedish we have the same
>thing (f. Kr. (before Christ), and e (after Christ),
>referring at the *birth* of Christ (=Jesus)). But that should
>most likely be counted from the fall of year 29 CE (!; does
>CE mean Common Era or Christian Era? I've heard both.)
Roger, this is more properly a theological question that
probably does not belong on B-Greek. Obviously Anabaptists,
Baptists, and members of similar denominations regard adult
baptism as the pivotal event in one's religious experience, while
Catholics, Episcopalians, Lutherans, etc., have no problems
whatsoever with infant baptism. Furthermore, Jesus's birth was a
_necessary_ condition for His later ministry; obviously, had He
not been born, the later stages of His life would have been
impossible. An Aristotelian might say that the Baptism merely
_actualized_ a _potential_ that was already there. The birth
narratives in Matthew and Luke _point_ to Jesus being the
Messiah, as does the Presentation in the Temple (Luke 2:22-38)
and the Confounding of the Elders (Luke 2:41-48). To make
another analogy, do you Swedes celebrate King Carl XVI Gustav's
birthday, the day he ascended the throne, or both?
Astronomers and historians prefer using B.C.E. ("before the
common era"). Thus a non-Christian can use B.C. dating without
formally recognizing Christ's claims by pretending that the
practice is merely a cultural artifact. It smacks of "political
correctness" to me, although one can rationalize that it _really_
stands for "before the Christian era." Another possible reason
for the new terminology is that Dionysius Exiguus, writing about
A.D. 530, calculated that Jesus was born in _ab urbe condita_
("from the foundation of the city," i.e. Rome) 754, which became
A.D. 1. Actually, Jesus probably was born between 7 and 2 B.C.,
but Dionysius' mistake is now so fixed in historical chronology
that we're stuck with it. B.C.E. thus becomes little more than
an arbitrary, but useful, yardstick based on Dionysius' labors.
Dr. Timothy L. Bratton bratton@acc.jc.edu
Department of History/Pol. Science work: 1-701-252-3467, ext. 2022
6006 Jamestown College home: 1-701-252-8895
Jamestown, ND 58405 home phone/fax: 1-701-252-7507
"All ignorance is dangerous, and most errors must be dearly
paid. And good luck must he have that carries unchastised an error in
his head unto his death." -- Arthur Schopenhauer.
------------------------------
From: Will Wagers <wagers@computek.net>
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 02:52:42 -0600
Subject: Re: Birthday/baptism and chronology
Dr. Timothy L. Bratton writes:
> Astronomers and historians prefer using B.C.E. ("before the
>common era"). Thus a non-Christian can use B.C. dating without
>formally recognizing Christ's claims by pretending that the
>practice is merely a cultural artifact. It smacks of "political
>correctness" to me, although one can rationalize that it _really_
>stands for "before the Christian era." Another possible reason
>for the new terminology is that Dionysius Exiguus, writing about
>A.D. 530, calculated that Jesus was born in _ab urbe condita_
>("from the foundation of the city," i.e. Rome) 754, which became
>A.D. 1. Actually, Jesus probably was born between 7 and 2 B.C.,
>but Dionysius' mistake is now so fixed in historical chronology
>that we're stuck with it. B.C.E. thus becomes little more than
>an arbitrary, but useful, yardstick based on Dionysius' labors.
Astronomers prefer BCE because the system has a year 0. This makes
calculations simpler. This system is preferred by some historians and
mathematicians for its orthogonality.
The historical convention omits the year 0, so the transition from BC
to AD skips from December 31, -1 to January 1, 1.
So, there is a difference of 1 year between BC and BCE dates.
CE and AD dates are the same.
I hope this eases your mind and softens your heart towards all
those "heathen" astronomers and historians who are slyly
ignoring Christ's claims.
Will
------------------------------
From: GTCOTR@aol.com
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 12:10:50 -0500
Subject: Re: Birthday/baptism and chronology
In a message dated 95-12-23 04:22:25 EST, Will Wagers wrote:
>Astronomers prefer BCE because the system has a year 0. This makes
>calculations simpler. This system is preferred by some historians and
>mathematicians for its orthogonality.
>
>The historical convention omits the year 0, so the transition from BC
>to AD skips from December 31, -1 to January 1, 1.
>
>So, there is a difference of 1 year between BC and BCE dates.
>CE and AD dates are the same.
Would you care to comment on something I heard the other day that (perhaps
based on this concept) the new millenium won't really begin until 2001? Am I
missing something?
Kenneth Bent
gtcotr@aol.com
------------------------------
From: Nichael Lynn Cramer <nichael@sover.net>
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 15:50:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Birthday/baptism and chronology
At 2:52 AM 23/12/95, Will Wagers wrote:
>Dr. Timothy L. Bratton writes:
>> Astronomers and historians prefer using B.C.E. ("before the
>>common era"). Thus a non-Christian can use B.C. dating without
>>formally recognizing Christ's claims by pretending that the
>>practice is merely a cultural artifact. It smacks of "political
>>correctness" to me,
GASP! Not that!! ;-)
>Astronomers prefer BCE because the system has a year 0. This makes
>calculations simpler. This system is preferred by some historians and
>mathematicians for its orthogonality.
>
>The historical convention omits the year 0, so the transition from BC
>to AD skips from December 31, -1 to January 1, 1.
>
>So, there is a difference of 1 year between BC and BCE dates.
>CE and AD dates are the same.
Say what??!?
Nichael "... and they opened their thesaurus
nichael@sover.net and brought forth gold,
http://www.sover.net/~nichael and frankincense and myrrh."
------------------------------
From: Will Wagers <wagers@computek.net>
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 15:31:14 -0600
Subject: Re: Birthday/baptism and chronology
>Would you care to comment on something I heard the other day that (perhaps
>based on this concept) the new millennium won't really begin until 2001? Am I
>missing something?
>
>Kenneth Bent
>gtcotr@aol.com
If you begin counting with the year 1, as in BC/AD dates, 1 is the first
year of any millennium, e.g. 1-1000, 1001-2000. So, the new millennium will
begin on Jan. 1, 2001.
Will
------------------------------
From: BBezdek@aol.com
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 17:39:10 -0500
Subject: Holiday Greetings
May all of you have a blessed Christmas or Hanukka this holiday season.
May we all be able to see the error in our doctrinal positions and be drawn
closer to convergence with God's truth.
In His Service,
Byron T. Bezdek
------------------------------
From: DBerger5@aol.com
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 22:08:22 -0500
Subject: Re: Are you being habitually unsubscribed from this LIST? Read this!
subscribe
------------------------------
End of b-greek-digest V1 #56
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