From: Carl William Conrad (cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu)
Date: Tue Dec 12 1995 - 06:51:05 EST
Rich, thanks for the clarification;
while the appended pre-history of (this
part of) the thread may seem verbose, it will perhaps help to clarify it
for any coming in on it late. I really think that we are no longer really
talking about periphrastic constructions so much as Word Order patterns.
At 6:51 PM 12/11/95, Richard Lindeman wrote:
>You wrote:
>>
>>
>>I wish you'd offer us some examples of what you mean. I assume that you are
>>going beyond the conventional distinction of three kinds of participial
>>usage as:
>> (1) adverbial: POREUOMENOI TAUTA DIELOGOUMEQA, "As we traveled, we
>> discussed these things."
>> (2) adjectival: TWi FILWi TWi SUN EMOI POREUOMENWi TAUTA EIPON, "I
>> told these things to my friend who was walking with me."
>> (3) nominal: TWi POREUOMENWi TAUTA DIHGHSAMHN, "I explained these
>> things to the traveler."
>>
>>I'm wondering if you are referring to the usage (which I would not
>>characterize as periphrastic) of a noun/pronoun + participle as normal
>>indirect discourse with a verb of perception:
>>
>> OIDA SE TAUTA PEPOIHKOTA, "I know that you have done these things."
>> HKOUSA SOU SOFOU ONTOS, "I heard that you were clever." (more
>idioma-
>> tically, HKOUSA SOU hWS SOFOS HSQA)
>> KATA PANTA hWS DEISIDAIMONSTEROUS hUMAS [scil. ONTAS] QEWRW (Acts
>> 17:22), "I see that in every way you are especially
>reverent"
>>
>>If it is something DIFFERENT from these usages, give us some examples.
>>
>
>OK... so you want actual examples? Well, if I must! :-)
>
>Perhaps I am off the wall on this, but that certainly
>wouldn't be the first time. What I am suggesting is that
>the participle, when standing adverbially on the right side
>of the verb that it modifies, seems often to be more verbal
>than adverbial... and that the opposite is true when the
>participle stands on the left side of the verb.
>
>When the participle stands on the right - there are times when
>I seem to hear an unspoken "eimi" behind the transitive verb
>that the participle is modifying. I am not suggesting that this
>is an actual case of elipse. Nor am I suggesting that
>this is a true periphrastic at all. But rather that when
>translated this participle has essentially the same force
>as a periphrastic.
>
>Luke 13:22 DIEPOREUETO KATA POLIS KAI KWMAS DIDASKWN KAI POREIAN
>POIOUMENOS EIS IEROUSOLUMA.
>
>Luke 11:25 KAI ELQON EURISKEI SESARWMENON KAI KEKOSMHMENON
>
>Luke 8:1 DIWDEUEN KATA POLIN KAI KWMHN KHRUSSWN KAI EUAGGELIZOMENOS
>THN BASILEIAN TOU QEOU
>
>Luke 18:43 HKOLOUQEI AUTW DOXAZWN TON QEON
>
>Luke 2:12 EURHSETE BREFOS ESPARGANWMENON KAI KEIMENON EN FATNH
These examples help very much to clarify for me what you're talking about,
but I think that these examples do not really follow a consistent pattern
that could be typed in any way other than by your classification of whether
the participial expression comes before or after the main verb. Moreover, I
really don't think it's necessary or appropriate to assume any form of
EINAI with any of the participles that appear on the right-hand side,
although they might conceivably be found in the two instances where the
main verb is hEURISKW, the reason being that these are really instances of
what I previously called Indirect Discourse with a verb of perception.
Although we may translate the participial phrases in those two verses as,
"finds it tidied and put in order" (Lk 11:25) and "you will find the baby
wrapped up and lying in a manger" (Lk 2:12), these are in fact equivalents
of "finds that it has been tidied up and put in order (SESARWTAI KAI
KEKOSMHTAI)" and "you will find that the baby has been wrapped up and
placed in a manger (ESPARGWTAI KAI KEITAI = TEQEITAI)."
As for the others (and actually for these as well) I think what we have
here is a logical pattern of word-order that represents chronological
sequence and that one will find normally observed UNLESS the writer has a
particular emphasis he/she wants to make, in which case rhetorical
positioning of words and phrases in the most emphatic locations occurs: (a)
participles that are generally adverbial and are used to explain the
circumstances constituting the setting of the action described by the main
verb come first; more often than not, these go into English best in an
adverbial clause headed by an adverbial conjunction such as "when,"
"since," "although," "if," or the like; (b) participles that are generally
adverbial and that indicate action or state resultant upon or subsequent to
the action of the main verb will follow the verb. I think this will work
with all of the above instances.
>Luke 13:22 DIEPOREUETO KATA POLIS KAI KWMAS DIDASKWN KAI POREIAN
>POIOUMENOS EIS IEROUSOLUMA.
"He passed through the cities and villages, (all the time) teaching and
continuing his journey into Jerusalem."
>Luke 11:25 KAI ELQON EURISKEI SESARWMENON KAI KEKOSMHMENON
"And when it arrives, it finds it (has been) tidied up and put in order."
>Luke 8:1 DIWDEUEN KATA POLIN KAI KWMHN KHRUSSWN KAI EUAGGELIZOMENOS
>THN BASILEIAN TOU QEOU
"He continued his journey through city and village, (all the time)
preaching and proclaiming the good news of the Kingdom of God."
>Luke 18:43 HKOLOUQEI AUTW DOXAZWN TON QEON
"He kept following him, (all the time) glorifying God.
>Luke 2:12 EURHSETE BREFOS ESPARGANWMENON KAI KEIMENON EN FATNHi
"You will find the baby (has been) wrapped up and placed in a manger."
What would other teachers and students of Greek grammar say on this?
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University
One Brookings Drive, St. Louis, MO, USA 63130
(314) 935-4018
cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu OR cwc@oui.com
WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
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