From: Ward Powers (bwpowers@eagles.bbs.net.au)
Date: Wed Dec 09 1998 - 07:42:29 EST
At 08:11 98/12/08 -0600, you wrote:
>At 8:00 AM -0500 12/8/98, Paul F. Evans wrote:
>> Carl,
>>
>> You wrote:
>>
>>>but you shouldn't ever see hO AGAQOS hO ANHR.
>>
>>
>> I am not in my office right now so I can't check, but I am almost certain,
>> other than the substitution of ANQRWPOS, that Machen actually gives this
>> exact
>> construction as an example for an attributive set up. I have always been
>> confused when I read the GNT when I come across anarthrous nouns and
>> articular adjectives trying figure out how to understand them. As basic as
>> it is, maybe we (I am too embraced by my ignorance to say "I") could use an
>> expert summary of the rules, if such a "summary" is possible! This would
>> explain why I do not find many constructions like the one I learned from.
>> Of course, I may have nodded off in this class and those strange
>> double-visions that dance in your head after a heavy lunch may have
>> multiplied the definite articles in the examples I was studying!
>
>I've just had a look at Machen's account of attributive and predicate
>positions of the article (pp. 35-37, ##68-74), and I have to say that
>I think it's one of the better-written sections of a
>less-than-remarkable beginning NT Greek grammar. Here's what he has
>in ##72:
>
>"The matter can be summarized as follows:
>
>Attributive Position /hO AGAQOS LOGOS \ = the good word
>of the Adjective \hO LOGOS hO AGAQOS/
>
>Predicate Position /hO LOGOS AGAQOS \ = the word is good
>of the Adjective \AGAQOS hO LOGOS /
>
>He then adds very sensible notes:
>"#73. The student should fix this distinction in his mind by
>thoughtful reading aloud of the above and similar phrases, until
>AGAQOS hO LOGOS, for example, comes to mean to him, even without
>conscious translation, 'good (is) the word, and comes to be
>dissociated entirely from the idea 'the good word.' If this advice be
>heeded, a solid foundation will have been laid for the mastery of a
>large part of Greek syntax.
>"#74. It should be observed that the distinction between the
>attributive and the predicate position of the adjective can be made
>in Greek only when the noun has the article. AGAQOS LOGOS or LOGOS
>AGAQOS (the noun here not having the article) may mean either 'a good
>word' (attributive) or 'a word is good' (predicate)."
>
>I could go check BDF and other beginning NT Greek textbooks which in
>many respects are far superior to Machen, but I doubt if I could find
>a clearer and more precise statement on this item of standard ancient
>Greek grammar, for that matter an item of grammar that bears equally
>upon classical Attic and upon Hellenistic Koine Greek.
>Carl W. Conrad
>Department of Classics/Washington University
>One Brookings Drive/St. Louis, MO, USA 63130/(314) 935-4018
>Home: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649
>cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu OR cconrad@yancey.main.nc.us
>WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
>
>---
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>
Dear Carl,
This is an off-list response. I was interested in your comments about
Machen. For myself, in the practical business of teaching, I have found the
kind of very condensed approach which Machen takes is much too compact for
most students to easily understand. Hence in my "Learning To Read the GNT"
I cover the topic in more detail, giving GNT examples of each kind of
situation, and spelling out the distinction between the attributive and
predicative uses.
If you have the necessary few minutes to spare to look at it, I would be
most interested in your comment on pages 92 to 94 of my grammar.
Regards,
Ward
Rev Dr B. Ward Powers Phone (International): 61-2-9799-7501
10 Grosvenor Crescent Phone (Australia): (02) 9799-7501
SUMMER HILL NSW 2130 email: bwpowers@eagles.bbs.net.au
AUSTRALIA.
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