From: Jason Hare (parousia_occ@yahoo.com)
Date: Tue Apr 04 2000 - 00:02:33 EDT
Carl,
I would still have to disagree with this assertion.
>From what you have sent me, the same is to be seen as
was said before: hOUTWS would indicate "in this way"
and not "soooo much." This is basically what you have
used as evidence: Acts 14:1 ("and they spoke in such a
way that..." not "and they spoke so much that...") and
Matthew 5:16 ("let your light shine in this way before
men..." [see verse 15] not "let your light shine soooo
much..."). From these two verses, John 3:16 would
indeed seem to be saying what our brother has said,
that God loved the world "in this way" (like the verse
above) with the result that he sent his Son.
This can especially be seen in Matthew 5:15 and 16.
The construction is the same. It says: ´OUDE KAIOUSIN
LUCNON KAI TIQEASIN AUTON hUPO TON MODION ALL' EPI THN
LUCNIAN, KAI LAMPEI PASIN TOIS EN THi OIKIAi. hOUTWS
LAMYATW TO FWS hUMWN EMPROSQEN TWN ANQRWPWN, hOPWS
IDWSIN hUMWN TA KALA ERGA KAI DEXASWSIN TON PATERA
hUMWN TON EN TOIS OURANOIS.ª
He described a picture (lighting a candle and putting
it on a candlestick) and said to "let your light so
shine," that is, "in this way." The same can be said
of John 3:14-16. Jesus described a picture (the Son
of Man being lifted up so that people, having seen
him, would believe in him) and then said that "God so
loved the world," that is, "in this way." I see that
this makes absolute sense.
The last verse that you use, however, 1 Corinthians
6:5, seems to be commonly understood in the way that
you are saying. It would be "so wise" or "wise
enough" (NIV). Then again, it seems to do the same as
the last two passages in a way. "Appoint as judges
even men of little account in the church!... Is there
no one wise in this way, who may judge between his
brother?" Even still it appears that such a meaning
is inherent in what hOUTWS means.
I hope this e-mail has pointed out something, in some
way. And I hope it is not too much of a mess to be
helpful to anyone.
Shalom,
Jason Hare
Ozark Christian College
parousia_occ@yahoo.com
--- "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu>
wrote:
> At 4:54 AM -0500 4/2/00, Jason Hare wrote:
> >cc: ´My own sense here is rather that hOUTWS ...
> hWSTE constitutes a
> >standard "consecutive" pattern having an emphatic
> adverb in an initial
> >clause followed by hWSTE with an infinitive or an
> indicative verb in a
> >result clause.ª
> >
> >Are there any other instances that you can give of
> this kind of use. That
> >might be interesting to note. Thanks.
>
> The classical construction is a simpler one with
> hOUTWS or some other
> qualitative or quantitative adverbial expression
> (e.g. TOSOUTOS/H/O or
> TOIOUTOS/H/O either modifying the verb or an
> adjective or another verb in
> the main clause and a hWSTE introducing either a
> finite verb clause (for an
> ACTUAL result) or an infinitive (for a NATURAL or
> PROBABLE result). There
> are also some less frequent variants to this
> pattern. Cf. Smyth's grammar,
> ##2273-2278.
>
(http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/text?lookup=smyth+2273&vers=english&browse=1)
> and LSJ hOUTWS III
>
(http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/lexindex?lookup=ou(/tws&lang=greek)
>
> In the GNT the pattern is less consistent; there may
> be hWSTE as in John
> 3:16 or in Acts 14:1 (EGENETO DE IN IKONIWi KATA TO
> AUTO EISELQEIN AUTOUS
> EIS THN SUNAGWGHN TWN IOUDAIWN KAI LALHSAI h O U T W
> S h W S T E PISTEUSAI
> IOUDAIWN TE KAI hELLHNWN POLU PLHQOS. = "And it
> happened in Iconium at the
> same time that they entered into the synagogue of
> the Jews and spoke such
> that a sizable throng of both Jews and Greeks came
> to faith.") or Matthew
> 15:33 (KAI LEGOUSIN AUTWi hOI MAQHTAI: POQEN hHMIN
> EN ERHMIAi ARTOI T O S
> O U T O I h W S T E CORTASAI OCLON TOSOUTON. =
> "And his disciples say to
> him, 'Where do we have in the wilderness loaves
> sufficient to feed a crowd
> this large?'")
>
> or there may be a hOPWS clause, as in Matthew 5:16
> (h O U T W S LAMYATW TO
> FWS hUMWN EMPROSQEN TWN ANQRWPWN, h O P W S IDWSIN
> hUMWN TA KALA ERGA KAI
> DOXASWSIN TON PATERA hUMWN TON EN TOIS OURANOIS, =
> "Let your light so
> shine before people that they see your good works
> and glorify your father
> in heaven.")
>
> or there may be a relative clause functioning to
> indicate the result, as in
> 1 Cor 6:5 (h O U T W S OUK ENI EN hUMIN OUDEIS S O
> F O S, h O S
> DUNHSETAI DIAKRINAI ANA MESON TOU ADELFOU AUTOU? =
> "Is there nobody so wise
> amongst you that he won't be able to judge a
> matter?")
>
> --
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics/Washington University
> One Brookings Drive/St. Louis, MO, USA 63130/(314)
> 935-4018
> Home: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314)
> 726-5649
> cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu
> WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
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