From: Harold R. Holmyard III (hholmyard@ont.com)
Date: Mon Apr 10 2000 - 12:16:49 EDT
<x-charset iso-8859-1>Dear Paul,
The closest construction I found to the one you note is in 1 Cor 5:3,
which uses the same words. Other places that have hWS with a participle
are: Luke 15:25; Acts 1:10, 11:17; 23:15, 20; 27:30; Rom 4:17; 15:15; 1 Cor
4:7, 18; 7:29-31; 9:26; 2 Cor 5:20; 6:9-10; 2 Cor 10:2, 14; Col 2:20; Heb
11:27; 13:3, 17; 1 Pet 2:13-14; 5:3; 2 Pet 1:3; Rev 1:15; 5:6; 13:3; 6. I
find the construction in 1 Cor 13:2 perfectly normal and do not see any
difficulty with a translation for 1 Cor 13:1-2 like:
"This third time I am coming to you . . . . I said beforehand and say
beforehand, as being present the second time and being absent now, . . .
that if I come again I will not spare."
Yours,
Harold Holmyard
Luke 15:25 §Hn de´ oJ uiöo\þ aujtouv oJ presbu/teroþ eôn a²grwñ×: kai´ wïþ
eôrco/menoþ h°ggisen thÿv oiôki—añ, h°kousen sumfwni—aþ kai´ corw×n,
Luke 16:1 é
Luke 16:1 é>DEar all
>
>2 Cor 13:2, PROEIRHKA KAI PROLEGW hWS PARWN TO DEUTERON KAI APWN NUN
>TOIS PROHMARTHKOSIN KAI TOIS LOIPOIS PASIN ... is usually translated
>something like
>ìI gave warning, and I give warning, as while present the second time,
>so also now when absent,
>to those who sinned before, and to all the rest ...î However, I have
>seen it argued that this would
>require a hOUTWS before KAI in the hWS ... KAI construction, and that
>KAI cannot possibly
>have the sense hOUTWS KAI here or anywhere else (Hyldahl, Die Paulinsche
>Chronologie,
>1986, p 104). The only supporting argument offered is that Matt 6:10;
>Acts 7;51; Gal 1:9 and
>Phil 1:20 do not provide parallels. I think he is right about Gal 1:9;
>Phil 1:20; I am not sure about
>Matt 6:10 and Acts 7:51.
>
>Hyldahl and others take the phrase to mean, ìas it were ... present the
>second time, though in fact
>now absentî. This would in fact make good sense, since the notion of
>ëepistolary presenceí was
>quite common in the ancient world.
>
>Can anyone point me to hWS ... KAI constructions that do without
>question have the sense
>commonly understood in 2 Cor 13:2?
>
>
>Thanks.
>
>
>Paul Toseland
>
>
>
>
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