From: James S. Murray (jsmurray@execpc.com)
Date: Tue Sep 05 2000 - 23:58:57 EDT
Carl,
Does it matter in this case that the genitive and the head noun are both verbal
ideas? This phrase strikes me as being very similar to another Pauline phrase; EX
AKOHS PISTEWS in Gal. 3:2. It seems to me that the most straightforward way to
understand this phrase is by "by hearing and believing" or "by believing what you
heard" (NIV; NRSV), rather than by understanding it in terms of a subjective or
objective genitive. Young has an interesting discussion of this under the heading of
Compound Verbal Genitives in his Intermediate NT Greek.
Could Rom 1:5, then, be understood as " we have received grace and a commission, to
lead/call people from all the nations to believe and obey?" I don't think this is at
variance with what you wrote, though perhaps there is more connection or interplay
between faith/believing and obeying here than I'm allowing for in my translation.
Thanks
Jim Murray
Racine, WI
"Carl W. Conrad" wrote:
> At 12:03 PM -0400 9/4/00, Theodore H Mann wrote:
> >I recently read that hUPAKOH PISTEWS, in Romans 1:5, has been viewed as
> >(1) an objective genitive, (2) a subjective genitive, (3) an attributive
> >genitive, or (4) as a genitive of apposition. Any thoughts as to which
> >it might be?
>
> I've said this before, but some don't take it very seriously: these
> distinctions reflect English or other target language usage, not categories
> in which Greek speakers/authors understood the relationship of a genitive
> with another noun.
>
> The text (which, as usual, I would urge posters, please, to present along
> with their questions--we can go to a text and look it up, but we wouldn't
> have to if we were given it with the question): ... IHSOU CRISTOU TOU
> KURIOUS hHMWN, (5) DI' hOU ELABOMEN CARIN KAI APOSTOLHN EIS hUPAKOHN
> PISTEWS EN PASIN TOIS EQNESIN hUPER TOU ONOMATOS AUTOU, ...
>
> Now consider the alternatives suggested:
>
> (1) objective genitive: "for obedience to faith" -- but is faith a person
> to whom one offers obedience? hardly.
> (2) subjective genitive: "faith's obedience" -- but is faith a person who
> can obey?
> (3) attributive genitive: "obedience of faith" = "obedience associated
> with/dependent upon faith" = "faithful obedience" -- that's what strikes me
> as most appropriate in this instance.
> (4) genitive of apposition: "obedience, i.e. faith" -- this doesn't make a
> lot of sense to me.
>
> My own sense of the intended meaning here is that when Paul successfully
> discharges his mission as an apostle he brings new converts into a
> condition that is not merely faith in God through Christ, but efficacious
> faith, which is to say, obedience to God's will as understood in Christ.
> You may say this is an interpretation, and so it is, but I think it is
> consistent both with Pauline usage and with Paul's expressed views on
> behavior as the consequence of newly-gained faith in God through Christ;
> that is to say, faith is not an abstract attitude or cognitive stance but a
> disposition to act in obedience to God's will as understood through Christ.
> --
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics/Washington University
> One Brookings Drive/St. Louis, MO, USA 63130/(314) 935-4018
> Home: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649
> cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu
> WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
>
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