From: Paul Zellmer (pzellmer@sc.rr.com)
Date: Tue Jan 09 2001 - 08:20:44 EST
David, do you recognize that you are now declaring this to be the normal
response *based on* your opinion that the two words are purely synonymous in
this text, and therefore interchangeable? Yet your previous post was taking
for sake of argument that the two are distinct. Again, if it results in
Jesus coming around to agree with Peter's point of view, it seems clear that
the thing that would have grieved Peter was that it took three times before
Jesus, who knows all things, finally came up to Peter's level. But I don't
think that the wording in the Greek can be stretched to have this be the
source of Peter's grief. We're missing a couple words then, aren't we? Or
are you claiming that Peter was grieved because Jesus, who knows all things,
made a superfluous statement by asking something that he already knew to be
the truth. But then why was Peter not grieved when Jesus, who knew all
things from the first, even asked the first time.
Yes, it's against Peter's nature. But if Peter is still wounded from the
events surrounding the crucifixion, would he not have a tendency to be a bit
less bold than before. There's a trust factor here--Peter's trust of his
own reactions to situations.
I realize that you are arguing a position that you don't hold. But your
interpretation is flavored by a predisposition that PHILEW is more intimate
than AGAPAW, and it just doesn't fit the text as we have it.
David, we aren't going to solve this. But I don't see your interpretation
as being the more natural in the text that we have, assuming that X is
distinct from Y.
Paul Zellmer
-----Original Message-----
From: One of the McKays [mailto:musicke@ozemail.com.au]
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 7:27 AM
To: Biblical Greek
Subject: [b-greek] Re: sorting out the slight distinctions of John 21
synonyms (per AGAPAO/PHILEO)
Paul said:
> The theological problem is that we do not find men correcting Jesus in the
> Johannine writings, yet this is what you see Peter doing here.
Not at all, Paul.
Jesus: Do you love me?
Peter: I love you a lot
Jesus: DO you love me?
Peter: I love you a lot.
Jesus: Do you love me a lot?
Peter: grieved at being asked 3 times! Lord, you know all things ...
Makes perfect sense [unless your mind is already made up that AGAPAW
represents that special AGAPH love!]
However, in view of the fact that John has used the 2 terms interchangeably
throughout his gospel, it is clear that he is doing the same here!
The other way round makes no sense at all. It doesn't fit the character of
Peter. I can't imagine him telling Jesus he only loves him with a lesser
love!
David McKay
musicke@ozemail.com.au
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