From: virgil newkirk (virgilsalvage1@email.msn.com)
Date: Tue Feb 06 2001 - 20:25:25 EST
Carl...thank you for the comments, they made me consider anew....just what
did happen here...what does it "say"? What I discovered is that here...I
fell prey to what has happened to me many times. There are familiar
words....words, that of course, only indicate and mean what I traditionally
think of. Lots..lots, something that is cast......results determined by this
process....in fact wherever lots are cast...God is made out to be the
determiner of the results...agreed? or at the very least, it is the results
of the casting of lots that determine what is to be.....it is out of the
control of those who do the casting. In fact it is on this premise that they
"cast lots".
It wasn't until I was doing some more reading today under KLEROS in
Spiros Zodhiates's The Complete Word Study Dictionary based on the lexicon
of Edward Robinson, which contains citations from the works of John
Parkhurst and Hermann Cremer....that under II.) I read...A lot, allotment,
part, share...e.g., Acts 1:17....Judas had obtained, " a share ", a part of
this ministry...this service if you will. Also as in Acts 8:21 where Peter
is saying to Simon, " You are not having a part nor "KLEROS"..a share in
this matter !
Now it makes sense that the text did not say....EBALON KLEROUS, what it
does say is that EDWKAN KLEROUS AUTOIS...They gave ( to give means there is
a recipient, a receiving ) shares AUTOIS to produce one KLEROS.."share" that
then..."EPESEN" EPI MATQIAN.
EPESEN is always with the adjunct of place from where or to which one or
something falls....here we have the KLEROS that was produced from the shares
and it is Nominative Masculine, EPESEN.....active voice....This KLEROS
accomplished this action of coming down from and then to.....MATQIAN.
I say with every confidence....and with all heartfelt feelings of good
will to what and who MATQIAN...was....even though the ones there numbered
him META TWN ENDEKA APOSTOLWN.....it never was. META TWN ENDEKA
APOSTOLWN....a description of ones in the genitive case. What had gone
through them....what had left it's distinction in them and hence
characterized them and only them as TWN ENDEKA APOSTOLWN who in their
distinction of having been chosen and experienced what they did with the
Lord and were now themselves in the Lord Himself as those very eleven....is
not something that can be done by fiat. It can only come by means of
DIAIRESIS....it is the genitive. It is not with intent of disparagement that
I say...MATQIAN...was not of that "genre".....that was only something that
the Lord APOSTOLWN...could and would give....He would have his twelve...and
He did..and does have them.
Virgil Newkirk
Salt Lake City, Utah
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu>
To: "virgil newkirk" <virgilsalvage1@email.msn.com>
Cc: "Biblical Greek" <b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 5:11 AM
Subject: Re: [b-greek] Acts 1:26 - EDWKAN KLHROUS
> At 2:05 AM -0700 2/6/01, virgil newkirk wrote:
> >On Mon, 05 Feb 2001 at 15:56...
> >
> > John Barach wrote...
> >
> >In their commentary on Acts, Lake and Cadbury point out that Acts 1:26
> >doesn't contain the usual formula for "they cast lots" (EBALON KLHROUS)
> >but rather a phrase which could be rendered "they gave lots" (EDWKAN
> >KLHROUS). They conclude that the group of disciples *voted* by giving
> >lots (e.g., a white pebble for Matthias, a black one for
> >Joseph/Barsabbas/Justus).
> >
> >Is that a plausible explanation? Are there other texts which use DIDWMI
> >in connection with casting lots?
> >
> > To John and all...
> >
> > Is that a plausible explanation?......Yes ! And it was unanimous,
from
> >the indications I see.
> >
> > The text...KAI EDWKAN KLHROUS AUTOIS, KAI EPESEN HO KLHROS EPI
MAQQIAN,
> >KAI SUGKATEYHFISQH META TWN ENDEKA APOSTOLWN
> >
> > Notice the KLHROUS, by the way, that were AUTOIS nominative pronoun
> >dative masculine theirs plural..the personification of all that was
theirs
> >....There was some confidence in these lots. These KLHROUS became one
> >KLHROS...EPI...with the accusative...distributed all over Matthias. It
seems
> >to me.
>
> I think I would understand this verse in a simpler way:
>
> (1) EDWKAN KLHROUS AUTOIS means that lots (whatever sort of instrument
they
> were using, be it pebbles or folded slips of paper) were assigned to each
> of the candidates so that each KLHROS is marked to indicate one of the
> candidates;
>
> (2) hO KLHROS EPESEN EPI MATQIAN means, I think, not that THE lot
literally
> fell upon Matthias, but that PIPTW here refers to the chance selection and
> hO KLHROS here refers to the process of choosing by lot. Here's L&N:
>
> "30.107 hO KLHROS PIPTEI EPI TINA: (an idiom, literally 'the lot falls
upon
> someone') the process of choosing, with the probable implication of
> discerning God's will in this manner - 'to choose by lot, to select by
> lot.'EPESEN hO KLHROS EPI MAQQIAN, KAI SUGKATEYHFISQH META TWN hENDEKA
> APOSTOLWN 'the name chosen was that of Matthias and he was added to the
> group of the eleven apostles' Ac 1:26. In some societies the closest
> natural equivalents of deciding by lot are procedures involving 'drawing
> straws' or 'throwing dice' or 'throwing down sticks' or 'dropping
pebbles.'"
>
> --
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics/Washington University
> One Brookings Drive/St. Louis, MO, USA 63130/(314) 935-4018
> Home: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649
> cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu
> WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
---
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