From: Paul Schmehl (p.l.schmehl@worldnet.att.net)
Date: Sat Jul 07 2001 - 18:24:48 EDT
Readers' note: this is rather lengthy and directed toward AOL users. If
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4
: Sat Apr 20 2002 - 15:37:01 EDT
that doesn't apply to you, you may want to skip this message. If it does,
please read the entire message.
Well, at the risk of irritating some, but in a sincere effort to bring
clarity to this issue, I am going to reproduce your message in toto,
including part of the mail headers, so you can see exactly what you are
sending. My response will be in ASCII text, and I will separate my comments
from your email with asterisks. Although my comments refer to your message,
they are not addressed to you specifically, but are intended to be
instructive for all who are struggling with this issue.
*****************
Received: from CWestf5155@aol.com
by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id k.e4.176fe236 (4569);
Sat, 7 Jul 2001 09:37:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: CWestf5155@aol.com
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 09:37:41 EDT
Subject: [b-greek] Re: Fwd: Re: Plain Text ASCII vs. Styled Text in AOL
To: Biblical Greek <b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="part1_e4.176fe236.28786aa5_boundary"
***************************
This line, "Content-Type: multipart/alternative" indicates that this email
message has more than one part. The boundary defines, for the mail client,
where each part of the message begins and ends.
*********************
X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10523
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:leave-b-greek-327Q@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
Reply-To: CWestf5155@aol.com
--part1_e4.176fe236.28786aa5_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
*********************
Notice that part 1 uses the "Content-Type" "text/plain" and the character
set "US-ASCII". This is done so that mail readers that cannot parse HTML
can still display the message. (Thus the need for two parts.) What follows
is the **plain text** ASCII version of your message.
**********************
Carl,
In a message dated 7/6/01 3:03:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu writes:
> As most list-members are aware, we have been urging list-members to avoid
> using styled text or MIME text styles in messages to the list, for the
> primary reason that every such message appears in duplicate in the daily
> Digest format in which many members receive list messages; such duplicates
> are not simply twice as long but sometimes as much as 3x as long because
> the second part is set in HTML coding. Several new list-members have
> recently told me that they can't write messages in plain-text in AOL and
> that the AOL advisers have not been at all helpful. I'm re-sending this
> message from Jay Adkins in February of this year, hoping it may be helpful
> to some who are having that difficulty.
>
>
My text is apparently as plain as it gets, and I believe that you are still
getting a duplicate. Of course the length is significantly increased if I
change my font or add any feature. The only way that I was told that I can
control this is by logging on to the web page--if I write from the e-mail on
the AOL web page, it will print in plain text. However, I think that I'd
have to use another server to log on to the web page, which I don't have at
home.
****************
I doubt seriously that you can send plain text from a web page. They
usually send HTML mail always and very seldom have the ability, much less
the option, to not send HTML email. What they probably meant was that you
can send ASCII HTML, which is what you've sent in this one.
****************
Cindy Westfall
Assistant Professor
Colorado Christian University
---
B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
You are currently subscribed to b-greek as: [p.l.schmehl@worldnet.att.net]
To unsubscribe, forward this message to
leave-b-greek-327Q@franklin.oit.unc.edu
To subscribe, send a message to subscribe-b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu
***********************
This ends the first part of your message. Notice that what follows is the
exact same message, in HTML.
***********************
--part1_e4.176fe236.28786aa5_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
***********************
Notice that the "Content-Type" for this second part is "text/html", even
though the character set is still "US-ASCII". What follows is an exact
duplicate of the first part, but WITH the inclusion of all the coding
necessary to display HTML. In some mail readers, this appears as text (as
it does here), and as you can see makes for some very difficult reading.
***********************
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Carl,
<BR>
<BR>In a message dated 7/6/01 3:03:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
<BR>cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid;
MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">As most list-members
are aware, we have been urging list-members to avoid
<BR>using styled text or MIME text styles in messages to the list, for the
<BR>primary reason that every such message appears in duplicate in the daily
<BR>Digest format in which many members receive list messages; such
duplicates
<BR>are not simply twice as long but sometimes as much as 3x as long because
<BR>the second part is set in HTML coding. Several new list-members have
<BR>recently told me that they can't write messages in plain-text in AOL and
<BR>that the AOL advisers have not been at all helpful. I'm re-sending this
<BR>message from Jay Adkins in February of this year, hoping it may be
helpful
<BR>to some who are having that difficulty.
<BR>
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"
FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR>
<BR>My text is apparently as plain as it gets, and I believe that you are
still
<BR>getting a duplicate. Of course the length is significantly
increased if I
<BR>change my font or add any feature. The only way that I was told
that I can
<BR>control this is by logging on to the web page--if I write from the
e-mail on
<BR>the AOL web page, it will print in plain text. However, I think
that I'd
<BR>have to use another server to log on to the web page, which I don't have
at
<BR>home.
<BR>
<BR>Cindy Westfall
<BR>Assistant Professor
<BR>Colorado Christian University
<BR></FONT>
---<BR>
B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
You are currently subscribed to b-greek as:
[p.l.schmehl@worldnet.att.net]<BR>
To unsubscribe, forward this message to
leave-b-greek-327Q@franklin.oit.unc.edu<BR>
To subscribe, send a message to subscribe-b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu<BR>
<BR>
---<BR>
B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
You are currently subscribed to b-greek as: [jwrobie@mindspring.com]<BR>
To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-b-greek-327Q@franklin.oit.unc.edu<BR>
To subscribe, send a message to subscribe-b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu<BR>
<BR>
</html>
--part1_e4.176fe236.28786aa5_boundary--
**********************
This ends the second part of your message. Looking at what you sent, you
can see that the digest would not only have two copies, but the second copy
would be larger than the first by the amount of HTML coding that is included
with the actual text of your message.
**********************
This is getting to be more and more of a problem, as vendors seem to think
that they know best what we ought to be using. Carl, I actually think you
might need to look in to parsers that will strip the HTML from these
messages and only forward the ASCII text to the list and the digest, because
some mail clients make it extremely difficult for the average user to
disable HTML.
There *is* a program that will allow you to use a "normal" email client
while on AOL. The URL for it is:
http://www.enetbot.com/
There is a web page that provides instructions on turning off HTML or RTF in
various popular email clients. The URL for that is:
http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help/html-off.html
This one even includes instructions for AOL mail clients and a discussion of
why HTML and RTF are bad:
http://www.expita.com/nomime.html
Your headers say that you are using AOL 6.0. The instructions for that are
here:
http://www.expita.com/nomime.html#aol6
I hope this helps clarify the problem, and anyone who wants to discuss it
further is welcome to email me OFF LIST.
Paul Schmehl pauls@utdallas.edu
p.l.schmehl@worldnet.att.net
http://www.utdallas.edu/~pauls/
----- Original Message -----
From: <CWestf5155@aol.com>
To: "Biblical Greek" <b-greek@franklin.oit.unc.edu>
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2001 8:37 AM
Subject: [b-greek] Re: Fwd: Re: Plain Text ASCII vs. Styled Text in AOL
>
> My text is apparently as plain as it gets, and I believe that you are
still
> getting a duplicate.