From: Moon-Ryul Jung (moon@sogang.ac.kr)
Date: Tue Mar 26 2002 - 10:00:35 EST
> >>
> >> >>> Rom 8.23: OU MONON DE, ALLA\ KAI AUTOI THN APARCHN TOU PNEUMATOS
> >>ECONTES,
> >> >>> hHMEIS KAI AUTOI EN hEAUTOIS STENAZOMEN hUIOQESIAN APEKDECOMENOI, THN
> >> >>> APOLUTRWSIN TOU SWMATOS hHMWN.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> It seems that KAI AUTOI are emphatic, being repeated later in the
> >>sentence.
> >> >>> My trouble is in understanding ECONTES. Is it adjectival, qualifying
> >>AUTOI
> >> >>> (or implied hHMEIS, which is explicit later in the sentence)? Or is it
> >> >>> adverbial, modifying STENAZOMEN? Or does it have a function that I have
> >> >>> overlooked?
> >> >>> ============
[Moon]
> From the viewpoint of language processing, i.e. hearing
> >words from left to right, I would interpret the sentence as follows:
> >
> >Also ourselves - we have the first fruit of the spirit -
> >Also we ourselves groan within oursevles.
> >
> >So, I would like to construe the participial clause with the subject.
> >The participial clause does not help determine the referent of AUTOI,
> >because the referent is already determined, but it describes the referent
> >further. Is there anything that prohibit my reading? Even if we construe
> >the participial clause with the subject, we still can talk about
> >the causal or concessive relationship between the participial clause
> >and the main verb ("groan"). But my point is: why should we
> >construe the participial clause with the main verb? Is there any
> >grammatical
> >reason?
>
[Carl]
> Moon, you're perfectly within your rights to apply your understanding of
> Linguistics as you see fit to describing the relationship between the
> elements here, and others on this list certainly do that too. Nevertheless
> some of "old fogies" who have learned and even continue to read Greek "the
> old fashioned way" have found traditional grammatical categories
> useful--and so, we distinguish two or three types of participial phrases,
> (1) a clearly substantival sort commonly, even if not always, preceded by
> an article, (2) an adjectival sort that really does clarify something
> important to understand about a noun, pronoun or substantive, and that
> often can be converted to a relative clause in the target language, and (3)
> an adverbial sort commonly termed "circumstantial" that, although the
> participle still is in agreement with a substantive, tends to indicate a
> causal, temporal, concessive relationship between the main predicate and
> the behavior of the subject. That's a very rough off-the-cuff division of
> what is commonly taught in academic Greek classes. I personally think that
> the ECONTES phrase here is adverbial and that it explains WHY "we too" feel
> the labor pains of the new-age coming to birth just as the
> universe-at-large suffers those labor pains.
>
>
>
Carl, I would agree with your judgement if I analyze the sentence
in terms of traditional grammatical categories. The participial clause
can be termed "circumstantial". But I wish we had another category
to explain the function and use of "adverbial" participial clauses,
because they involve a weaker connection to the main verb than ordinary
adverbial phrases. That is why I want to "translate" the sentence as
follows:
Also ourselves - having the first fruit of the spirit -
also we ourselves groan within oursevles.
The participial clause is "dangling", being loosely connected to the
main sentence via the case agreement with the subject. The very attempt
to categorize participial clauses as adjectival or adverbial seems
unnatural.
Isn't the above sentence simply a compact way to represent the following
two
sentences?
We have the first fruit of the spirit. Even we ourselves groan within
ourselves.
Moon
Moon R. Jung
Sogang Univ, Seoul, Korea
traditional grammatical categories, and am so familiar to it.
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
> Most months:: 1647 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu OR cwconrad@ioa.com
> WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
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