>PD said
>If they believed the Lord's return was "at hand" (KJ) and if they
>believed the great tribulation immediately preceded that event, then this
>was indeed cause for alarm. They would then be in the great tribulation,
>along with all the severe persecutions and martydoms associated with it.
>..........they should expect severe persecutions even sooner.
RH
That just seems illogical to me. I would not be alarmed to think that the
Lord's return was at hand. I cannot see Paul Dixon being alarmed. The Day
of the Lord conveys many ideas-- The control of God over all events, Judgment
Day, the rapture, among others. I cannot see the "tribulation" gaining
dominance over all these other concepts in the minds of the Thessalonians and
creating a climate of fear any more than I could see a Paul Dixon or others
on this list being similarly focussed.
It would make better sense to me if, in these verse, Paul were referring back
to the tribulations to which the Thessalonians were being subjected and to
which he refers at the beginning of both letters, and then telling them not
to be disheartened because they must endure these tribulations. Ultimately,
Christ is coming, he says, and the tribulations are normal. In fact, he
says, beginning in v 3, even worse things must happen before Christ returns.
I cannot see the Thessalonian's problem as being a fear of current or
approaching tribulation. I can see them being troubled that their current
tribulations might raise doubts about, and rejection of, all that Paul has
taught them. Perhaps that was happening to some of them. I think this is
also the point in Matthew 24:6.
>PD also said
>But, the alarm may be more than just the concern over the sufferings. It
>may be that some of these reports they were getting were to the effect
>that Christ was already here (if we take ENESTHKEN as "has come").
RH
That's fine. However, I do not see how that would translate into the
Thessalonians being troubled.
>PD again
>The parallel between Mt 24:15 ff and 2 Thess 2:1ff is too obvious to
>ignore. In both passages the tell-tale sign preceding the coming of the
>day of the Lord is the abomination of desolation (Mt 24:15), that is, the
>revelation of the man of lawlessness (2 Thess 2:4).
>
>No, I don't see the problem you're having. If we take hWS hOTI ENESTHKEN
>hH hHMERA TOU KURIOU with the preceding, it makes excellent sense. It
>explains the content of what they had been lead to erroneously believe.
>Verse 3, then, is an expectant exhortation from Paul not to be deceived
>by such and why.
RH
Obviously, we do not agree on what makes excellent sense. Even if hWS hOTI
ENESTHKEN hH hHMERA TOU KURIOU does explain the content of what the
Thessalonians had been lead to erroneously believe, I cannot see this being
the source of alarm or a troubling as seems to be conveyed in these verses.
>PD lastly
>But, even if you do take it with verse 3, how does that solve your
>problem?
RH
First, it makes the Thessalonian's current tribulations the context for their
fears which makes sense to me. Second, v3 would in effect have Paul saying,
"Now, concerning this idea that you think the Day of the Lord is at hand, let
no man deceive you because that day cannot come unless such and such
happens." If the Greek allowed this, I would be happy. If it cannot, then I
do not understand how Paul could be referring to a fear of the tribulation
identified with the coming of the Lord.
Regardless, if the Greek cannot permit a translation such as I have
suggested, then I will have to look at these verses as currently translated
whether I am able to understand them or not. Such is life.
Roger Hutchinson
RHutchin@AOL.com