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b-greek-digest V1 #635
b-greek-digest Tuesday, 28 March 1995 Volume 01 : Number 635
In this issue:
Re: "This generation ...": Mk 13:34 par.; Mk 9:1 par.
Re: Aland's early text
Re: Aland's early text
Re: "This generation ...": Mk 13:34 par.; Mk 9:1 par.
Re: Aland's early text
Ministry in the New Testament
OT and NT ministry
Re: Ministry in the New Testament
Re: OT and NT ministry
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Larry W. Hurtado" <hurtado@cc.umanitoba.ca>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 10:34:47 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: "This generation ...": Mk 13:34 par.; Mk 9:1 par.
Thank you "The Rev. David R. Graham" for your quaintly robust (and
criticially unaware) presentation of your own Hindu-ized version of the
Jesus story and of the Indian origins of all things good. But, please,
could we restrict this list more to things that scholars can seriously
debate, and preferably to things a bit more obviously related to the
Greek NT? Just a thought.
Larry Hurtado, Religion, Univ. of Manitoba
------------------------------
From: "Larry W. Hurtado" <hurtado@cc.umanitoba.ca>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 11:00:48 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Aland's early text
On Aland's analysis of the early history of the NT text, there are a few
things to note.
1. There are changes from the lst (1987) to 2nd (1989) English editions of
the Alands' _The Text of the NT_, largely in response to damaging
criticisms in English-language reviews (by inter alia, E.J. Epp
[Interpretation 44, 1990, 71-75], yours truly [CBQ 50, 1988, 313-15, and
others). In particular, gone from the 2nd ed. is "the early text",
replaced by "the text of the early period". The former term was
confusing, as if "early text" represented any particular textual
complexion or set of characteristics (like a "text-type"). Also, in the
2nd ed., there is a less doctrinaire approach to early textua history.
2. After all is said and done, and after Aland announces a revolutionary
approach to analysing the early history of the NT text, what he winds up
with in the three varieties he finds in the earliest papyri--the "free"
text, the "normal" text, and the "stict" text--look suspiciously very
similar to Hort's three main text-types ("Western", "Syrian", and
"Neutral"). One is left to wonder, thus, how substantially different
Aland's analysis really is, other than to show that something like the
fourth century text types seems to be exhibited in the early papyri.
3. As another, and more thoughtful to my view, analysis, I point to E.
J. Epp, "The Significance of the Papyri for Determining the Nature of the
New Testament Text in the Second Century: A Dynamic View of Textual
Transmission," in E. J. Epp, G. D. Fee, _Studies in the Theory and Method
of NT Textual Criticism_ (Eerdmans, 1993), pp. 274-97.
L. W. Hurtado, Religion, Univ. of Manitoba
------------------------------
From: Vincent Broman <broman@np.nosc.mil>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 13:25:48 PST
Subject: Re: Aland's early text
hurtado@cc.umanitoba.ca comments on Aland:
> ...he finds in the earliest papyri--the "free"
> text, the "normal" text, and the "st[r]ict" text--look suspiciously very
> similar to Hort's three main text-types ("Western", "Syrian", and
> "Neutral").
It was obvious that Aland equated "strict" texts with Hort's "Neutral",
and he viewed "free" textual transmission as the source of Hort's
"Western" text, while denying that it was a text type, but I didn't
see any hint that "normal" texts were somehow connected to Hort's "Syrian".
Did I miss something? Or were you just responding to the tripartite division?
In any case Aland measured everything by its distance from p75/B,
around which the rest of the world revolves.
Vincent Broman, code 572 Bayside Email: broman@nosc.mil
Naval Command Control and Ocean Surveillance Center, RDT&E Div.
San Diego, CA 92152-6147, USA Phone: +1 619 553 1641
------------------------------
From: Vincent Broman <broman@np.nosc.mil>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 14:12:56 PST
Subject: Re: "This generation ...": Mk 13:34 par.; Mk 9:1 par.
baloglou@oswego.oswego.edu surmised:
> ...PANTA TAUTA (which I suspect
> to be vastly more common than TAUTA PANTA in all forms of Greek...
In the NT, PANTA TAUTA occurs in 4-7 verses, depending on text,
and TAUTA PANTA in about 14 verses, depending on text.
The order of this word pair frequently varies between MSS.
Did Greek usage change over the centuries with respect to this phrase?
Vincent Broman, code 572 Bayside Email: broman@nosc.mil
Naval Command Control and Ocean Surveillance Center, RDT&E Div.
San Diego, CA 92152-6147, USA Phone: +1 619 553 1641
------------------------------
From: "Larry W. Hurtado" <hurtado@cc.umanitoba.ca>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 16:29:37 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Aland's early text
On Mon, 27 Mar 1995, Vincent Broman wrote:
> It was obvious that Aland equated "strict" texts with Hort's "Neutral",
> and he viewed "free" textual transmission as the source of Hort's
> "Western" text, while denying that it was a text type, but I didn't
> see any hint that "normal" texts were somehow connected to Hort's "Syrian".
> Did I miss something? Or were you just responding to the tripartite division?
> In any case Aland measured everything by its distance from p75/B,
> around which the rest of the world revolves.
Quite right, Aland didn't make any obvious similarities between his
schema and Hort's. I was simply observing that Aland's description of
his "normal" text has some interesting similarities to Hort's
characterization of some characteristics of his "Syrian" type (a certain
scribal freedom to produce edifying, inoffensive readings, etc.).
Larry Hurtado, Religion, Univ. of Manitoba
------------------------------
From: TimNeum@aol.com
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 22:33:11 -0500
Subject: Ministry in the New Testament
Greetings to all.
I would like to seek discussion of Matt. 28:16-20 as "Words of Institution"
for an apostolic ministry rather than a Great Commission for lay
evangelization. I ask that any responses be exegetical, but not overly filled
with "linguobabble."
Regards,
Timothy L. Neumann
------------------------------
From: TimNeum@aol.com
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 22:46:43 -0500
Subject: OT and NT ministry
Greetings to all.
I am seeking discussion of possible points of contact that may exist between
the Aaronic priesthood and the apostolic ministry as described in the New
Testament. For example, can there be some kind of contact between Lev.
10:10-11 and Matt. 28:16-20? All pertinent comments would be appreciated.
Regards,
Timothy L. Neumann
------------------------------
From: Larry Swain <lswain@wln.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 22:05:42 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Ministry in the New Testament
Timothy,
I have been doing some thinking on this of late myself. I think that
your observation to a degree hits the mark. 28.16 certainly specifies
the 11 remaining "disciples" who had been designated as "My brethren" in
Jesus' instructions to the women at the tomb in v.10. It is also
interesting that the first thing g that Jesus does in His ministry after
the Temptation is call the disciples (4.18). The last thing he does is
tell his disciples to imitate him and make disciples.
There are of course Mosaic parallels here as well. In Dt. 31.23 after
his "speech" and before the "song" Moses commissions Joshua his disciple
if you will to take the sons into the land. Here we have Jesus
completing what Moses didn't: from the land into the world. And when
Moses dies on the mtn. top he is buried where no one knows, Dt 34. Now
Jesus is where no one knows and his body is not found.
Anyway, I think it obvious that the "great commission" is the commission
for apostolic ministry given to a group of men who had lived and heard
Jesus for a minimum of 3 years, not a general instruction for everyone to
be a missionary or a big lay evangelism program. Of course to apply this
dictum to 20th century American Christianity is difficult because we
don't look much like the disciples and the early church.
- -Larry Swain
Parmly Billings Library
lswain@billings.lib.mt.us
On Mon, 27 Mar 1995 TimNeum@aol.com wrote:
> Greetings to all.
> I would like to seek discussion of Matt. 28:16-20 as "Words of Institution"
> for an apostolic ministry rather than a Great Commission for lay
> evangelization. I ask that any responses be exegetical, but not overly filled
> with "linguobabble."
>
> Regards,
> Timothy L. Neumann
>
------------------------------
From: Larry Swain <lswain@wln.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 22:14:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: OT and NT ministry
I think that the parallel you have noted needs first to be broadened.
Dt. 33.10 also speaks of the Levites teaching the TOrah to Israel. The
parallel is one of function however. The Levites, and the priesthood are
to the Old covenant as Jesus and the disciples are to the New. That is,
Jesus who is the prophet like Moses in Matthew reveals the covenant to
the disciples who teach it to the church. I don't think that Matthew
would say that there is an identification of the disciples with
Levites-that is that they take over the same position and activities. I
hope that makes sense to the readers as much as to the writer.
Regards,
Larry Swain
Parmly Billings Library
lswain@wln.com
------------------------------
End of b-greek-digest V1 #635
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