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b-greek-digest V1 #681
b-greek-digest Monday, 24 April 1995 Volume 01 : Number 681
In this issue:
Re: 1 Tim 2:12, AUTHENTEIN
Re: 1 Cor. 15:29
Re: UBS4 & NA27
Re: 1 Tim 2:12, AUTHENTEIN
Re: UBS4 & NA27
Re: UBS4 & NA27
Re: Memorisation of Principal Parts
Query: Hendrickson Publishers.
Re: Query: Hendrickson Publishers.
Re: Query: Hendrickson Publishers.
Internet virus warning
VIRUS HOAX
Re: Memorisation of Principal Parts
Re: UBS4 & NA27
Re: UBS4 & NA27
Herod and Augustus
Re: UBS4 & NA27
Re: N27 and UBS proposed changes
Re: Memorisation of Principal Parts
Pig and Son pun
Re: 1 Cor 15:29
Re: 1 Tim 2:12, AUTHENTEIN
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From: Kenneth Litwak <kenneth@sybase.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 00:01:57 PDT
Subject: Re: 1 Tim 2:12, AUTHENTEIN
I can't seem to find the issue on the shelf right now (I'm up late
doing German for class tomorrow of course, and my IBM Proprinter does about
one apge every twenty minutes!), but I know I've read an article on
authentein in the Tyndale Bulletin in a 1993 or 94 issue. If I come
across it, I'll post the info. Othewise, Tim, you'll have to look for yourself.
Ken Litwak
Emeryville, CA
------------------------------
From: Timster132@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 04:24:51 -0400
Subject: Re: 1 Cor. 15:29
TO: b-greek@virginia.edu
To the list of possible early adherents of baptism 'YPER NEKRWN,
there's one other possibility that hasn't been mentioned yet.
It is known that there were Jewish missionaries that were active in the
diaspora, who it seems may have practiced baptism (as John Baptist did). If
they practiced "baptism for the dead", it would seem natural for Paul to
refer to the group as "they" instead of "we".
I have wondered if Paul speaking of "The Baptized for the dead" may have
been a technical term which meant the sinful self which dies in baptism, (cf,
Paul: we are buried in baptism, we die to sin and are raised with Christ,
etc).
I realize that we have 'YPER + the genitive, which means "on behalf of".
But instead of taking this literally, maybe it is a figurative way of
speaking of baptizing the dead sinful person of our past.
Believe me, I don't expect anyone to solve this until the 2nd day after
the eschaton, as our old NT prof back in seminary used to say.
Peace,
Tim
------------------------------
From: Timster132@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 04:25:01 -0400
Subject: Re: UBS4 & NA27
To: kenneth@sybase.com
CC: B-Greek@virginia.edu,
From: Timster132@aol.com
> While the NA27 apparatus is certainly better, I think an >important
question can be raised at this point. Are all the
>variants listed in the NA27 really that important, as opposed
>to the significant variants listed in UBS4? I don't want to
>sound like I'm oversimplifying, but is it really important to
>know of variansts supported by say, jsut Tertullian
>and W to use a hypothetical example?
In Text Criticism, weighing the mss is just the "external" evidence; and
other variants from other mss may be important evaluate the internal evidence
(ie, create a hypothesis as to how the variants evolved and which may be the
original reading).
In other words, a variant from Tertulian or the Freer Gospels (W), may
provide a clue as to how the textual tradition of a verse came about, and poin
t the way to which reading may be considered original.
Then there are others in Text Criticism who opt for the pure Ecclectic
method, who believe that the texts are so helplessly mixed that it is
possible that any mss may hold the original reading, regardless of
chronological status or text type. Although I do not fully agree with this
approach, the adherents to this method prefer to have all the variants before
them as possible, as so they would prefer NA27 to UBS4.
Peace
Tim
------------------------------
From: Timster132@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 04:24:58 -0400
Subject: Re: 1 Tim 2:12, AUTHENTEIN
TO: B-GREEK@VIRGINIA.EDU
cc: lswain@wln.com
From: Timster132@aol.com
Larry, you said...
>AUTHENTEIN usually means something like
>exercising one's own authority with almost
>the flavor of usurpation, or to domineer or
>dominate in its negative sense. EXSOUSIADZW
>deals more with faculties, authority which
>is given. Or at least so my experience has been.
So if we apply this to why [Dt-]Paul used AUTHENTEIN instead of EXSOUSIADZW
, it would seem fair to say that he was wanting Timothy to keep the women out
of teaching and speaking altogether in the church. He wants them to be quiet
students, learning from the men-- and not domineering women. Well, that
certainly fits falls in line with many concurrent rabbinical attitudes toward
women.
I see your point about the text not being about husbands/wives but about
men/women. I guess I was wanting to tone down [Dt-]Paul's patriarchial tone,
by limiting what he said to husbands and their wives rather than men and
women in general.
Thanks.
Tim
------------------------------
From: Timster132@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 04:25:02 -0400
Subject: Re: UBS4 & NA27
TO: B-GREEK@VIRGINIA.EDU
CC: heckej@abraham.ccaa.edu
From: Timster132@AOL.COM
heckej@abraham.ccaa.edu noted....
>UBS4 does not help very much with textual criticism;
>neither is it meant to do this.
Yes. But it was the UBS3 with its texual footnotes is what got me
curious about the method of Text Criticism. I especially wondered what kind
of critieria one would use to rate some readings as very certain, while
others had the {D} dubious label attatched to them.
But once I became competitent w/ my Greek and w/ TC, I dropped the use of
the UBS3, and went to the NA26 where I could find more variant readings.
Now-a-days, if I have a question on a text matter, I will put down my
NA26 and pick up Metzger's textual commentary to check out his comments,
without even referring to the UBS Greek NT.
I agree with you, too, about the legibility of both of the new texts.
Peace,
Tim
------------------------------
From: Timster132@aol.com
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 04:25:02 -0400
Subject: Re: UBS4 & NA27
TO: B-GREEK@VIRGINIA.EDU
cc: ptiller@husc.harvard.edu
From: Timster132@aol.com
Pat made a very insightful comment.....
>The real problem is that UBS implies that there
>are very few places where there is any meaningful
>doubt about the most primitive form of the text. This
>is simply not so. Since the committee is not always
>right in its editorial decisions, it is extremely important
>that the exegete/student be aware of the options and
>be able to evaluate them. Even where the committee
>did choose correctly the reading to print in the text,
>it is often helpful to consult the variants to learn how
>earlier readers have interpreted the text.
This I feel is THE big difference between the NA and UBS editions: The
UBS rates their variants on a sliding scale, while the NA leaves the reader
to his or her own textual critical skills. As Pat says, others may disagree
with what the committee voted to have as the text.
As for the UBS being for translators, I suppose a translator, who is green
in the area of TC, when tempted to use a variant reading, might think twice
about using a variant reading in the text of the translation when the Greek
text has an {A} rating.
On the other hand, the translator might feel obligated to include a
footnote in the translation of those variants from a {D} rated text.
Isn't that the gist of it?
Peace,
Tim
------------------------------
From: Carl W Conrad <cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu>
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 05:24:16 -0500 (GMT-0500)
Subject: Re: Memorisation of Principal Parts
On Sun, 23 Apr 1995, Bruce Terry wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Apr 1995, Bill Mounce wrote:
> >Its not so much that I don't like the term "principal parts," its that I
> >couldn't get a could, clean definition of it, and I couldn't get my friends
> >in English grammar to agree on an English definition.
> How about "those parts of a language designed principally to throw students
> into utter confusion"?
Let me perhaps illustrate Bill's point by saying that I think this
definition is very misleading, Bruce, unless you meant it facetiously to
reflect what students FEEL about principal parts. Obviously irregular
principal parts were never DESIGNED to throw students into utter
confusion; they throw students into confusion because they are
UNPREDICTABLE from the stem of the present tense. One learns the Greek
verb and usually in the morphology charts sees it represented by a verb
like LUW or PAIDEUW (since I started with Koine, it was STAUROW)--a verb
with a vowel-stem and perfectly predictable formation of all other
tense/voice stems.
My definition of principal parts: those first-person-singular forms in
each of the six major verb systems from which may be derived the
tense/voice stems of those systems.
Those that need to be memorized are precisely those wherein one or more
of the principal parts are not predictable from the present indicative 1
sg.; the unpredictable features may have to do with nothing more than an
unpredictable voice change, as AKOUW AKOUSOMAI; they may have to do with
the preferred substitution of a radically different verb-root in one or
more tenses, as ESQIW, EDOMAI, EFAGON; they may have to do with
unpredictable alterations in the verb-root, as MANQANW, MAQHSOMAI,
EMAQON; they may have to do with alterations of the anticipated form
owing to phonetic factors, as KTEINW, KTENW, EKTEINA, etc., etc.,etc. In
any case, it is the UNPREDICTABILITY of one or more of these principal
parts that makes it imperative to learn a particular verbs pp's.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University
One Brookings Drive, St. Louis, MO 63130, USA
(314) 935-4018
cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu OR cwc@oui.com
------------------------------
From: J.D.F.=van=Halsema%BW_KG%TheoFilos@esau.th.vu.nl
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 95 14:42:03 EET
Subject: Query: Hendrickson Publishers.
Hendrickson Publishers in Peabody, Massachusetts, publishes cheap reprints
and other books in the field of Old and New Testament Studies.
I would like to order some books published by them.
Can anybody help me with their address and/or fax number?
This is not a commercial advertisement.
Thanks,
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Erik van Halsema |Research Assistant Free University Amsterdam
j.d.f.van_halsema@esau.th.vu.nl |Faculty of Theology
jdfvh@dds.nl |De Boelelaan 1105, 1081 HV Amsterdam, NL
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, no jokes offered.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Gary Meadors <gmeadors@epix.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:29:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Query: Hendrickson Publishers.
On Mon, 24 Apr 1995 J.D.F.=van=Halsema%BW_KG%TheoFilos@esau.th.vu.nl wrote:
> Hendrickson Publishers in Peabody, Massachusetts, publishes cheap reprints
> and other books in the field of Old and New Testament Studies.
> I would like to order some books published by them.
> Can anybody help me with their address and/or fax number?
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Erik van Halsema |Research Assistant Free University Amsterdam
> j.d.f.van_halsema@esau.th.vu.nl |Faculty of Theology
> jdfvh@dds.nl |De Boelelaan 1105, 1081 HV Amsterdam, NL
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hendrickson Publishers
137 Summit Street
POBox 3473
Peabody, MA [Mass] 01961-3473
Phone: 508/532-6546
------------------------------
From: Doug Weatherston <DWEAT@milan.mi.springarbor.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 09:39:39 EDTEST
Subject: Re: Query: Hendrickson Publishers.
On 24 April
J.D.F.=van=Halsema%BW_KG%TheoFilos@esau.th.vu.nl
wrote:
>Hendrickson Publishers in Peabody, Massachusetts, publishes cheap reprints
>and other books in the field of Old and New Testament Studies.
>I would like to order some books published by them.
>Can anybody help me with their address and/or fax number?
Erik --
Here's the information I have in my files:
Hendricksen Publishers
137 Summit Street
Peabody, MA 01961
phone: (800) 358-3111
fax: (508) 531-8146
Hope this helps!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Doug Weatherston
Book Buyer (professionally, I mean)
dweat@springarbor.com
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
------------------------------
From: Daniel Hedrick <hedrickd@ochampus.mil>
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 08:59:56 -0600
Subject: Internet virus warning
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