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b-greek-digest V1 #721
b-greek-digest Friday, 26 May 1995 Volume 01 : Number 721
In this issue:
Paul on Messiah as Seed//Signatures?
Re: Jn. 1:1
Re: Jn. 1:1
Re: Paul on Messiah as Seed
Signatures Netcom, AOL, etc.
[none]
[none]
unsubscribe
Re: Signatures Netcom, AOL, etc.
Re: anarthrous pred. nouns
SUBSCRIPTION
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From: Melchizedk@aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 08:28:12 -0400
Subject: Paul on Messiah as Seed//Signatures?
I appreciate Robert Kraft's supplement to the earlier material posted
concerning Galatians 3:16. Kraft has reminded us that Paul was well aware of
the collective force of the word translated "seed" or "offspring." Mr. Kraft
is also due thanks for reminding me to read in context, which is ever so
important, whether in biblical exegesis or gourmet cooking.
=================================================
America OnLine has no format for creating a signature page.
Yours with an ax chopping away at the logs in my eyes,
Alan G. Carmack
posting from Pflugerville, Texas
"holding no theological bias"
pure amateur on the Net
attending Austin Seminary
wanna-be Catholic
would-be Evangelical
former United Methodist
about-to-be Episcopal
alive and well in Jesus Christ
in words of C.S. Lewis, mere Christian
------------------------------
From: Ken Penner <kpenner@mail.unixg.ubc.ca>
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 06:15:02 -0800
Subject: Re: Jn. 1:1
> Tim Staker (Timster132@aol.com) wrote:
>
> >Mr. Moffatt translated John 1:1 here with the qualitative
> >sense: "and the Word was divine."
What I don't understand is if the author meant to convey a
qualitative meaning, why he didn't use the adjective QEIOS
instead of the noun QEOS.
Is there any significance to using the noun instead of the
adjective in this context?
Ken Penner
Regent College
Vancouver, Canada
kpenner@unixg.ubc.ca
------------------------------
From: David Moore <dvdmoore@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 08:04:24 -0700
Subject: Re: Jn. 1:1
Ken Penner (kpenner@unixg.ubc.ca) quoted and wrote:
>> Tim Staker (Timster132@aol.com) wrote:
>>
>> >Mr. Moffatt translated John 1:1 here with the qualitative
>> >sense: "and the Word was divine."
>
>What I don't understand is if the author meant to convey a
>qualitative meaning, why he didn't use the adjective QEIOS
>instead of the noun QEOS.
>
>Is there any significance to using the noun instead of the
>adjective in this context?
Well, QEIOS certainly could be translated "divine," but that's not
the word used here. The noun QEOS is used, as I understand it,
conveying all that QEOS conveys in its other uses in the immediate
context. But because, in Jn. 1:1c, as a predicate noun, it lacks the
article, it conveys qualitative rather than naming information.
David L. Moore Director of Education
Miami, FL, USA Southeastern Spanish District
Dvdmoore@ix.netcom.com of the Assemblies of God
------------------------------
From: WINBROW@aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 11:43:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Paul on Messiah as Seed
Kraft wrote,
"The NRSV translation, in trying to communicate in clearer English,
probably obscures the somewhat "alien" Pauline ideas in 3.16, which
seems to me to be saying "...it/he does not say 'and to your many seed,'
with a focus on multiplicity, but as focusing on unity, 'and to your
singular seed,' which/who is Messiah/Christ." The subsequent argument
also picks up on the unity/multiplicity theme in describing the arrival
of "Law" through angels and mediation, which does not lend itself to
unity, althought God is "one" (3.19-20). Then again, in 3.28-29,
distinctions and oppositions and pluralities are transformed into
"one/unity in Messiah Jesus." That is how Messiah AND his unified body
can ALL be the ONE seed of the Abrahamic promise in Paul's
transformational last days of the "present age."
The point is, do look at the context(s)!"
I concur with the emphasis on the unity of the body and Paul's emphasis on
being EN CRISTWI. To be in Christ is to be an heir of the right relationship
by faith like Abraham. Some in my eighteen credit hours of Hebrew, I
remember an emphasis on "corporate personality" and the idea of a remnant
through which all Israel could be redeemed. If that's the case, then it does
matter that much that Paul is abusing the language a bit.
Carlton Winbery
Chair Religion
LA College
------------------------------
From: David Moore <dvdmoore@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 08:49:17 -0700
Subject: Signatures Netcom, AOL, etc.
Alan G. Carmack (Melchizedk@aol.com) wrote:
>America OnLine has no format for creating a signature page.
Since Netcom has no format of creating a signature, either, I've
found a patchwork way of creating one. It works, and maybe those who
now attach no signature might want to try it.
One simply creates a file with the signature info and saves it in
a convenient directory under an easy-to-find filename (mine is saved as
00000000.txt). After composing a message, open the signature file as
an additional file (without closing the message), select the text of
the signature and copy it to the clipboard. Close the signature file;
paste the signature info to the end of your message; and send the
message on its way.
This, of course, presupposes Windows. It can be done without
Windows, too; but that's a whole nuther story.
Regards,
David L. Moore Director of Education
Miami, FL, USA Southeastern Spanish District
Dvdmoore@ix.netcom.com of the Assemblies of God
------------------------------
From: "Benita M. Suber Bey" <bmsuber@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu>
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 13:10:33 -0500
Subject: [none]
------------------------------
From: "Benita M. Suber Bey" <bmsuber@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu>
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 13:09:07 -0500
Subject: [none]
------------------------------
From: Benita Suber-Bey <bmsuber@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu>
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 13:30:47 -0500
Subject: unsubscribe
Unsubscribe Benita Suber-Bey bmsuber@ilstu.edu
------------------------------
From: Carl W Conrad <cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu>
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 13:36:51 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Signatures Netcom, AOL, etc.
On Thu, 25 May 1995, David Moore wrote:
> One simply creates a file with the signature info and saves it in
> a convenient directory under an easy-to-find filename (mine is saved as
> 00000000.txt). After composing a message, open the signature file as
> an additional file (without closing the message), select the text of
> the signature and copy it to the clipboard. Close the signature file;
> paste the signature info to the end of your message; and send the
> message on its way.
>
> This, of course, presupposes Windows. It can be done without
> Windows, too; but that's a whole nuther story.
This is even easier on a Mac using Z-Term, but that is a whole different
kettle of fish! ;-) Best not to get in that business that had the whole
interNet citing Umberto Eco a few months back--on the theological
differences presupposed by use of DOS and use of Macintosh.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University
One Brookings Drive, St. Louis, MO, USA
(314) 935-4018
cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu OR cwc@oui.com
WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
------------------------------
From: "Gregory Jordan (ENG)" <jordan@chuma.cas.usf.edu>
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 15:36:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: anarthrous pred. nouns
On Wed, 24 May 1995, David Moore wrote:
> The qualitative use of AGAPH should probably not be translated
> "loving" here. It remains a noun, not a gerund; but its qualitative
> sense is emphasized.
To clarify the ambiguity in English, "loving" was meant not as a gerund,
which is a noun, but as an adjectival participle. That is, "God is
loving" in the sense of "God is the kind of person who loves; or, God
loves [people]; or, God is characterized by his love [for people]."
> It is precisely the anarthrous AGAPH that indicates that the
> terms QEOS and AGAPH are not interchangeable.
But they would be able to be interchangeable if agapE were a definite or
indefinite noun, which it can be here. Colwell's Rule apparently gives no
assistance in determining that. Of course it's very possible 1 John is
using _agapE_ several different ways in the very same passage, but to me
the use with the article all around the anarthrous examples implies the
latter are meant to be definite also (as definite as an abstract noun can be).
> The article you quote with AGAPH in 4:16 is an article of
> reference pointing to the mention of AGAPH in the previous phrase,
> which quotes 4:8, and should be understood as taking into account the
> discussion of love in vv. 7-12. A possible translation of this part of
> 4:16 would be, "God is love, and whoever abides in this love abides in
> God and God abides in him." Although I wasn't able to find any of the
> major translations that so render it, R. C. H. Lenski does translate it
> this way and cites the same reasons mentioned above (Lenski, _The
> Interpretation of St. Peter, St. John and St. Jude_ [Minneapolis:
> Augsburg, 1966] p. 509).
Yes, and this use of love is clearly substantive: God/love are
interchangeable (as words, that is - 1 John's reference to God's love
shows s/he doesn't conflate the two literally) in figurative phrases like
'whoever has love has God' etc. [operating without my NT at the moment
or I would provide the reference].
> Welcome back to the discussion, Greg. I was beginning to wonder
> if you'd signed off the list.
Thank you & glad to be back. :)
Greg Jordan
jordan@chuma.cas.usf.edu
------------------------------
From: RPrice3784@aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 May 1995 17:37:09 -0400
Subject: SUBSCRIPTION
I have enjoyed this area, but miust sign off for the summer. Hiope to see
you next Fall. R.F.Price, Baptist Bible College East
------------------------------
End of b-greek-digest V1 #721
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