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b-greek-digest V1 #818
b-greek-digest Thursday, 10 August 1995 Volume 01 : Number 818
In this issue:
Latin vocabulary software
Re: John 1:1 and the JW's
tapes
Re: Information Request - Church History
Re: Colwell rule (fwd)
LITV Bibles! (fwd)
Re: John 3:16 (eis/into)
addendum, LITV Bibles
Re: LITV Bibles! (fwd)
Re: LITV Bibles! (fwd)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ken Penner <kpenner@mail.unixg.ubc.ca>
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 22:39:06 -0800
Subject: Latin vocabulary software
On 8 Aug 95 at 16:41, Orthopodeo@aol.com wrote:
> Anyone know of a semi-decent (or even bad) program for drilling
> on Latin vocabulary and grammar? A Windows program would be
> nice, but I'll take just about anything at this point.
I'm in the process of writing such a Windows-based general-purpose
vocabulary drill program. (I hope this doesn't sound too
commercial; it's free at this point.)
I just made a "beta-test" version available on the net, for limited
distribution to those willing to report bugs and suggestions. For
now the test version only comes with a small set of Greek cards,
but you can create your own card files for Latin. I hope to have
Greek, Hebrew, and Latin cards available for September.
If anyone would like to help me test the program, it can be found
at http://netshop.net/~kpenner/flashlit.zip
Ken Penner
Regent College, Vancouver
kpenner@unixg.ubc.ca
http://www.netshop.bc.ca/~kpenner/
------------------------------
From: Paul Dixon - Ladd Hill Bible Church <pauld@iclnet93.iclnet.org>
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 22:54:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: John 1:1 and the JW's
Ken:
My Th.M. thesis (Dallas Seminary, '75), entitled "The
Significance of the Anarthrous Predicate Nominative in John," prompted by
an abuse of Colwell's Rule (where the inverse or negative of his rule was
invalidly inferred both by Colwell and many others, including those who
would attempt to use his rule to argue against the JW interpretation in
Jn 1:1), totally supports your assertions. I found that the anarthrous
predicative nominative in John's Gospel was qualitative 65 out of 74
occurrences, or 88% probability.
If you would like the conclusion of my thesis, I would be happy
to forward it on to you via the net.
Paul Dixon
On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, DR. KEN PULLIAM wrote:
>
>
> John Albu wrote advocating the JW (Arian) interpretation of John 1:1.
> He quoted a number of obscure translations which seem to support his
> interpretation. The fact is all of the standard translations in all
> languages and the overwhelming majority of all translations (better
> than 90%) would render the verse: "and the Word was God."
>
> John is right to say that the anarthrous predicate nominative is
> used to qualify or describe the subject. Theos does give the
> qualitative nature of logos, as to his nature he was theos, i.e.
> deity. The article by Harner in JBL is accurate but it does not
> support the JW translation, and I don't think that he would like
> being quoted in support of the NWT.
>
> B. F. Westcott has a good comment on why there is no article before
> Theos in John 1:1.
>
> The predicate (God) stands emphatically first, as in iv.24. It
> is necessarily without the article inasmuch as it describes the]
> nature of the Word and does not identify His Person. It would be
> pure Sabellianism to say "the Word as ho theos." No idea of
> inferiority of nature is suggested by the form of expression,
> simply affirms the true deity of the Word. (Comm. on John, p. 3)
>
> By the way, it is interesting to note that in John 1:6, 12, 18 Theos
> occurs without the article and clearly refers to God in the absolute
> sense.
>
>
> --
> Ken R. Pulliam, Ph.D.
> Chandler, Arizona
> thedoc@aztec.asu.edu
>
------------------------------
From: Craig Martin <CrMartin@sunbelt.net>
Date: Wed, 09 Aug 1995 05:48:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: tapes
I am wondering if anyone knows of a tape series that might be available to
help in learning to pronounce vocabulary. It is hard to remember what you
cannot say in your mind.
thanks
Craig
------------------------------
From: MURRAY HOGG <muzhogg@ozemail.com.au>
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 95 21:59:07 +1000
Subject: Re: Information Request - Church History
*James White asked;
>1) Does anyone know of a similar forum dedicated to Church History,
>patristic study, etc.?
The ecclesiastical history list should be what you are
looking for.
Subscribe requests should be sent to :
listserv@bgu.edu
Send;
SUBSCRIBE ECCHST-L YourFirstName YourLastName
This list shows a high level of scholarly input, not unlike
b-greek, hope it helps
In Him
Murray (Muz) Hogg
muzhogg@ozemail.com.au
------------------------------
From: Paul Dixon - Ladd Hill Bible Church <pauld@iclnet93.iclnet.org>
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 08:20:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Colwell rule (fwd)
This is being sent upon request. It was sent earlier this year,
but some have asked it be sent again.
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 23:51:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Dixon - Ladd Hill Bible Church <pauld@iclnet93.iclnet.org>
To: Kenneth Litwak <kenneth@sybase.com>
Cc: B-GREEK@virginia.edu
Subject: Re: Colwell rule
This is in response to the many who requested an elaboration of my thesis
on the abuse of Colwell's rule. It is entitled, "The Significance of the
Anarthrous Predicate Nominative in John," and can be obtained at Dallas
Theological Seminary, Dallas, TX. Here is the conclusion of the thesis
taken verbatim from my own copy.
"The use of the anarthrous predicate nominative in John is
significant. It is qualitative in 65 out of 74 occurrences, or 88%
probability. When the anarthrous predicate nominative precedes the verb
it is qualitative in 50 of 53 occurrences, or 94% probability. When it
follows the verb the anarthrous predicate nominative is qualitative 13 of
19 occurrences, or 68%.
"The implications of this are equally significant. No longer
should Colwell's rule mislead us into thinking that an anarthrous
predicate nominative preceding the verb is just as definite as the
articular predicate nominative following the verb and that "there need be
no doctrinal significance in the dropping of the article, for it is
simply a matter of word-order." (footnoted quoting from Colwell, Journal
of Biblical Literature 52 (1933):13) Our conclusions show that when John
wished to express a definite predicate nominative, he usually wrote it
after the verb with the article, 66 of 77 occurrences or 86%
probability. When he wished to express a qualitative predicate
nominative with the verb, he usually wrote it before the verb without the
article, 50 of 63 occurrences or 80% probability.
"Finally, we may conclude three things about John 1:1. First,
Colwell's rule cannot be applied to the verse as an argument for
definiteness. Colwell's rule says that definite predicate nominatives
preceding the verb usually are anarthrous. The rule asserts nothing
about definiteness. It does not say that anarthrous predicate
nominatives preceding the verb usually are definite. This is the
converse of the rule, and as such is not
cessarily valid. Indeed, our thesis demonstrates just the opposite, that
anarthrous predicate nominatives preceding the verb usually are
qualitative, 94% of occurrences. Second, on the basis of the contrast
with 1:14 (where the humanity of Christ is stressed), and on the basis of
the comparison with the first two clauses in 1:1 (where two eternal
qualities of the Logos are laid out), we conclude that theos is 1:1c
stresses quality. Third, this thesis demonstrates that the statistical
probability of theos being qualitative, rather than definite or
indefinite, is quite high, 94%.
Paul Dixon, pastor Ladd Hill Bible Church, Wilsonville, OR
------------------------------
From: Paul Watkins <bennywp@community.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 14:07:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: LITV Bibles! (fwd)
- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
I have been perusing the 1995 LITV (Literal Translation Version) by Jay P
Green, Sr. What I have found, I believe to be the most accurate, literal
translation in modern English of the Bible IN HISTORY. Jay P Green is
among the world's top translators and textual critics, and used solely
the text of the RECEIVED TEXT (from which the KJV was translated). His
version stands alone in a gloomy sea of modern (per)versions, and brings
to the reader the glorious Word of God in undiluted, uncorrupted,
non-interpretive form. His philosophy is that even the most unleared of
people can understand the Word of God as He wrote it, and as such Green
added no commentary, nor did he (like most modern versions such as the
NIV) add a hundred thousand words to the text to make it "more
understandable". LET GOD BE TRUE BUT EVERY MAN A LIAR!
Now, what I'm posting about is a proposition. You can order this bible
in deluxe (leather bound, gold edges, verse paragraphed, for whatever that's
worth) edition for $25.00 plus shipping from Sovereign Grace Publishers at
(800)-447-9142. OR I can sell them to you for $20.00 flat (includes
shipping). The difference is about 7 bucks or so. The reason I'm doing
this is because I want to get Green's translation out there. I am
earning NOTHING from this- I'm actually losing a small amount in
postage. But I can contract SGP for 54 bibles at $1000. If I get enough
responses (say, 25 or more responses) to this message, I will go ahead
and get the contract and ship them to you for $20.00. This way if you
like it and want to buy a few for your friends, you don't have to buy 54
of them to get the cheaper price.
As a serious student and teacher of God's most precious, inspired Word, I
seriously recommend that every believer get one of these bibles, either
from Sovereign Grace Publishers or from me. I'm trying to get the Word
of God out- the Word itself can do the rest.
If you would like a deluxe edition of the LITV for $20.00 then respond to
this message. If I get enough, I'll e-mail you back and ask for your
names and addresses.
In Jesus Christ,
R. Paul Watkins
(707)-224-9095
------------------------------
From: Stephen Carlson <scc@reston.icl.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 95 16:18:22 EDT
Subject: Re: John 3:16 (eis/into)
Craig,
For the kind of word study you are doing on John 3:16, namely the use of
the preposition EIS with the verb PISTEUW, I recommend Bauer, Arndt,
Gingrich, and Danker's A GREEK-ENGLISH LEXICON OF THE NEW TESTAMENT AND
OTHER EARLY CHRISTIAN LITERATURE. They try be exhaustive and show how
the entries are grammatically used with other parts of speech.
I'll use their entry for PISTEUW as an example, substantially abbreviating
the citations but keeping some of the references to John's Gospel. They
discriminate four broad meanings:
1. BELIEVE
a. BELIEVE (IN) SOMETHING, BE CONVINCED OF SOMETHING, with that which
one believes (in) added:
(1) in the acc[usative] of the thing. Jn11:26b.
(2) by means of a hOTI clause, BELIEVE THAT Jn8:24 11:27 13:19 etc.
(3) by acc[usative] and inf[initive] Ac8:37b; by the inf. Ac15:11;
by acc. and participle ISm3:1.
(4) by means of the dat[ive] of the thing. GIVE CREDENCE TO, BELIEVE
Jn2:22 12:38.
(5) with prepositions, EIS Rm4:18 1Jn5:10c; EN TWi EUAGGELIWi Mk1:15;
EN TOUTWi, BY THIS Jn16:30; EPI TINI Lk24:25.
b. with person to whom one GIVES CREDENCE or whom one BELIEVES, in the
dat. Mk16:14 -- Also of Jesus and God whom one BELIEVES, accepting
disclosures without doubt. Jn5:38 46b 6:30 8:45; God: Jn5:24.
c. with person and thing added, p. tini ti, BELIEVE SOMEONE WITH REGARD
TO SOMETHING, Hm6,2,6. with dat. of the person and hOTI Jn14:11a.
d. abs[olute], Jn3:12a b 10:25f 12:47tr 14:29 etc.
e. BELIEVE = LET ONESELF BE INFLUENCED kata tinos AGAINST SOMEONE Pol6:1.
f. middle voice, ENJOY CONFIDENCES Dg12:8.
2. BELIEVE (IN), TRUST, laying special emphasis in trusting someone's power.
In Christian literature, the object of the trust is God or Christ.
a. the object is given ...
(1) in the dative, God Ac16:34 Tt3:8 [this overlaps with 1b. supra].
(2) with EIS, Jn2:11 3:15 [TR Byzantine Aleph] 3:16 Mt27:42tr.
(3) with EPI + dat. Jn3:15 [P66] Rm9:33 10:11
(4) with EPI + acc. Mt27:42 Jn3:15 [A] Ac9:42
(5) with EN + dat. Jn3:15 [P75 B Nestle], perhaps Ep1:13; but both
could be absolute (see 2b. infra).
b. absolute (object implied by context) Jn1:17 50 3:15? 18b 4:14f etc.
c. HAVE CONFIDENCE that God will help Mt8:13 9:28 21:22.
3. ENTRUST tini ti SOMETHING TO SOMEONE Lk16:11 Jn2:24.
4. CONSIDER (AS POSSIBLE)? Rm14:2, cf. Jn9:18.
As this entry shows, PISTEUW EIS is not the only way to express the
concept of trusting in God. Early Christian Greek writers use other
prepositions (EPI, possibly EN) or no preposition at all (just the
dative case) to say the same thing. Moreover, the use EIS is not
restricted to this meaning [see 1a(5)]. Therefore one cannot avoid
examining the context to find the meaning.
Stephen Carlson
- --
Stephen Carlson : Poetry speaks of aspirations, : ICL, Inc.
scc@reston.icl.com : and songs chant the words. : 11490 Commerce Park Dr.
(703) 648-3330 : Shujing 2:35 : Reston, VA 22091 USA
------------------------------
From: Paul Watkins <bennywp@community.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 14:31:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: addendum, LITV Bibles
Since I mentioned the use of the TR and not the Masoretic Text, some have
though that the LITV is only a New Testament. It is a full translation
of the full Bible- TR used for the New Testament and MT used for the
Old. Also, for those of you who are familiar with Green's popular
_Interlinear Hebrew-Greek-English_, the English text found in the margins
is basically the text of the LITV, only the LITV has revised it several
times and made corrections on it. Any more questions?
Paul Watkins
(707)-224-9095
------------------------------
From: Mark O'Brien <Mark_O'Brien@dts.edu>
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 95 17:10:59 CST
Subject: Re: LITV Bibles! (fwd)
Original message sent on Wed, Aug 9 8:07 AM by bennywp@community.net (Paul
Watkins) :
> I have been perusing the 1995 LITV (Literal Translation Version) by Jay P
> Green, Sr. What I have found, I believe to be the most accurate, literal
> translation in modern English of the Bible IN HISTORY. Jay P Green is
> among the world's top translators and textual critics, and used solely
> the text of the RECEIVED TEXT (from which the KJV was translated).
Wasn't the KJV good enough? ;-)
> His
> version stands alone in a gloomy sea of modern (per)versions, and brings
> to the reader the glorious Word of God in undiluted, uncorrupted,
> non-interpretive form.
I thought we just had a thread discussing the impossibility of a
non-interpretive translation?!
Mark O'Brien
------------------------------
From: WINBROW@aol.com
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 19:36:14 -0400
Subject: Re: LITV Bibles! (fwd)
Mark wrote,
"I thought we just had a thread discussing the impossibility of a
non-interpretive translation?!"
Yes, and accuracy is a judgment call also. My edition of the TR does not
have the last half of I John 2:23 or a number of other things found in the
better texts. It also has some verses not found in the better texts either.
Carlton Winbery
Pineville, LA
------------------------------
End of b-greek-digest V1 #818
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