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b-greek-digest V1 #933
b-greek-digest Monday, 30 October 1995 Volume 01 : Number 933
In this issue:
help
Re: help
question
Re: Periphrastic Aorist
question
re: periphrastic aorist
Re: rom 7.18-25
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Paul Watkins <102737.1761@compuserve.com>
Date: 29 Oct 95 16:14:41 EST
Subject: help
In 2 Peter 2:9, the KJV says,
"The Lod knoweth how to deliver the godly outof temptations, and to reserve the
unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:"
My question is regarding the phrase "to be punished." Should this
be thus translated, or should it be ", being punished"? The difference
is huge because the KJV teaches that they are reserved to judgment for
punishment (which is true, but may not be what the text is saying) but
most literal translations I've read say that they are being punished now,
will they are being "kept" or reserved for that day. Basically
how does one deal with "kolazomenous"? To be punished or being punished?
Thank you in advance, and please respond as I am not subscribed to the
list right now.
Paul Watkins
Grace College and Seminary
------------------------------
From: "Carlton L. Winbery" <winberyc@linknet.net>
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 18:19:43 +0400
Subject: Re: help
Paul Watkins wrote;
>In 2 Peter 2:9, the KJV says,
>
>"The Lod knoweth how to deliver the godly outof temptations, and to reserve the
>unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:"
>
>My question is regarding the phrase "to be punished." Should this
>be thus translated, or should it be ", being punished"? The difference
>is huge because the KJV teaches that they are reserved to judgment for
>punishment (which is true, but may not be what the text is saying) but
>most literal translations I've read say that they are being punished now,
>will they are being "kept" or reserved for that day. Basically
>how does one deal with "kolazomenous"? To be punished or being punished?
>
>Thank you in advance, and please respond as I am not subscribed to the
>list right now.
The participle KOLAZOMENOUS can be adverbial indicating the purpose for
which they are being kept. In that case the translation "to be punished"
is acceptable. Clearly the three participles in vss. 9-10 (KOLAZOMENOUS,
POREUOMENOS, and KATAFRONOUNTAS refer to the ADIKOUS. The later two follow
the article TOUS and are used as adjectives to make a further assertion
about the ADIKOUS.
Carlton Winbery
Prof. Religion
LA College,
Pineville, La
winberyc@linknet.net
fax 318 442 4996
------------------------------
From: Claire Calmettes <deaquino@shani.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 02:08:53 +0200
Subject: question
Hi,
Just a question (and forgive me if I disturb, but I'm in the list from
yesterday); I look now at a few messages. Why don't you write in greek? It
should be easier to read... :)
------------------------------
From: BibAnsMan@aol.com
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 19:57:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Periphrastic Aorist
In a message dated 95-10-28 20:38:17 EST, Carlton L. Winbery writes:
>The periphrastic aorist consist of the imperfect of EIMI with the aorist
participle.
>Robertson is right that the only one is a variant reading in John 18:38.
Just three comments:
1) Where is the rule that the periphrastic aorist consists of the imperfect
of EIMI with the aorist participle? Cannot the present of EIMI be used?
There may be one, but I am unaware of any such rule.
2) Robertson does not cite John 18:38, but quotes Blass for Luke 23:19 as the
only one. However, Blass does not say this in Blass-DeBrunner's grammer
which also gives John 18:38.
3) 2 Cor. 5:19 is not an Aorist participle, but a present: hWS hOTI QEOS HN
EN XRISTW KOSMON KATALASSWN hEAUTW, ....
Thanks for all the comments,
Jim McGuire
Professor of Greek at
Logos Bible Institute
13248 Roscoe Blvd.
Sun Valley, CA 91352
------------------------------
From: Claire Calmettes <deaquino@shani.net>
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 1995 02:51:38 +0200
Subject: question
Hi,
Just a question (and forgive me if I disturb, but I'm in the list from
yesterday); I look now at a few messages. Why don't you write in greek? It
should be easier to read... :)
------------------------------
From: "Carlton L. Winbery" <winberyc@linknet.net>
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 20:02:57 -0600
Subject: re: periphrastic aorist
Jim McGuire wrote:
>In a message dated 95-10-28 20:38:17 EST, Carlton L. Winbery writes:
>
>>The periphrastic aorist consist of the imperfect of EIMI with the aorist
>participle.
>>Robertson is right that the only one is a variant reading in John 18:38.
>
>Just three comments:
>
>1) Where is the rule that the periphrastic aorist consists of the imperfect
>of EIMI with the aorist participle? Cannot the present of EIMI be used?
> There may be one, but I am unaware of any such rule.
Do you know of an instance when the present tense of EIMI is used with an
aorist participle in a periphrastic construction? "Rules" in languages are
our observations of what happens. In Robertson's observation the only
aorist periphrastic he cites is with HN plus the aorist participle.
>2) Robertson does not cite John 18:38, but quotes Blass for Luke 23:19 as the
>only one. However, Blass does not say this in Blass-DeBrunner's grammer
>which also gives John 18:38.
The verse is Jn. 18:30 not 38. And the citation was from Blas-Debrunner.
I did not take time to look at my note on this.
>3) 2 Cor. 5:19 is not an Aorist participle, but a present: hWS hOTI QEOS HN
>EN XRISTW KOSMON KATALASSWN hEAUTW, ....
Keep on reading and you will find QEMENOS which many translators interpret
with HN as prephrastic. HN KATALASSWN is an imperfect periphrasis which is
much more common. Luke 23:19 is an aorist passive periphrastic
construction. Another possible passive construction is in Acts 8:13 but
BAPTISQEIS is probably an advervial participle.
Carlton Winbery
Prof. NT & Greek
LA College,
Pineville,La
winberyc@linknet.net
fax (318) 442-4996
------------------------------
From: Bruce Terry <terry@bible.acu.edu>
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 1995 23:39:41 CST
Subject: Re: rom 7.18-25
On Fri, 27 Oct 1995, Kenneth Litwak wrote:
> Just a quick note on a very difficult passage, which has consumed
>gallons of ink. There are several different views of what is going on
>in Romans 7
>1. It is autobiographical, before conversion
>2. It refers to humans in general
>3. It refers to Israel
>4. It is autobiographical, after conversion
add:
5. It refers to humans, including Paul, apart from the Spirit of God
********************************************************************************
Bruce Terry E-MAIL: terry@bible.acu.edu
Box 8426, ACU Station Phone: 915/674-3759
Abilene, Texas 79699 Fax: 915/674-3769
********************************************************************************
------------------------------
End of b-greek-digest V1 #933
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