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b-greek-digest V1 #41
b-greek-digest Monday, 11 December 1995 Volume 01 : Number 041
In this issue:
Re: Periphrastics
Re: Classical and Koine Differences
Learned Babble _sive_ Babel (long and foolish)
Re: Classical and Koine Greek
Re: Periphrastics
Translations/difinitions
John 5:39-40
Re: Translations/difinitions
Translations/difinitions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu>
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 07:13:59 -0600
Subject: Re: Periphrastics
At 4:06 PM 12/9/95, Rod Decker wrote:
>The usual def. of a periphrastic is a form of 'eimi' with a ptcp. to
>express a single verbal idea. (Some simply say a "linking verb" + ptcp.)
>What are the thoughts of you who are grammarians and linguists on the
>subject? Can a periphrastic be formed with any verbs other than 'eimi'? Has
>this changed over the course of classical ... koine usage?
>
>I haven't pursued this extensively in the grammars at this point, but did
>run over to the seminary briefly this afternoon and checked a few things.
>Porter (_VA_ ch. 10) restricts periphrastics to 'eimi'+ ptcp. He has
>another classification for other similar combinations: catenative
>constructions, with the finite verb contributing verbal aspect and the
>auxiliary maintaining "its integrity as an independent contributor to the
>semantics of the clause." He notes the following posiblities for this
>construction: 1) verbs of capability, desire, etc. (e.g., 'dunamai',
>'qelw', 'dei', 'mellw', 'boulomai'); 2) 'ecw'; and 3) 'ginomai'.
I would suppose that ECW (I really want to write EXW, which seems more
natural to me, primarily because the X "looks like" the Greek character,
but also because it's what I use for chi on my GreekKeys keyboard) is
classed in the above list as periphrastic in the sense of "be able (to),"
but there is another fairly frequent combination of ECW with the nom. sg.
aor. active ptc to form a periphrastic perfect: e.g., ECW LABWN, "I have
captured." I would think that if DEI (used as impersonal, "it is obligatory
(to)" is listed, then others like it should be listed as well, such as CRH
(XRH, I want to write), "it is needful (to)," which is actually a noun and
normally used with an implicit ESTI, as is ANAGKH, "there is compulsion
(to)." So common is CRH that it forms a most peculiar imperfect 3 sg,
ECRHN, which is to say, it augments the older crasis form CRHN = CRH HN.
>I also noted that Smyth lists 'ecw' as a legit. periphrastic (sect. 599b,
>1963), along with 'emellon' (1960), 'ginomai' (1964), and 'fainomai'
>(1965). Porter notes that 'ecw' is included as a potential periphrastic
>element by Gildersleeve, Goodwin, Kuhner/Gerth, Jelf, Chantrine, and Aerts.
To the above list should be added DOKEW, which is used very much like
FAINOMAI in idiomatically distinct functions with an infinitive,
DOKW EIDENAI, OUK EIDWS, "I appear to know/think I know when I
don't know," a recurrent phrase in Plato's Apology of Socrates.
There's an idiomatic distinction also between DOKEW and FAINOMAI used with
an infinitive and the same verbs used with a participle. e.g.:
FAINETAI EIDENAI = "he appears to know (but may very well NOT know)"
FAINETAI EIDWS = "he manifestly does know, shows himself to know"
Some of the classical grammars use the term "supplementary participle" for
the above usage of ptc with DOKEW and FAINOMAI, perhaps to characterize the
construction as comparable to a "complementary infinitive" used with the
verbs like BOULOMAI, QELW, etc. Among the particularly common verbs that
are auxiliaries taking such "supplementary" participles in classical Attic
are LANQANW, "go undetected while ...," TUGXANW, "happen (to do), do by
chance," and FQANW, "anticipate (someone else) (by doing), e.g.:
FQANW TON STRATIWTHN EIS TO hIERON TREXWN = "I run into the
sanctuary before the soldier (can apprehend me)."
One other point I think may be worth making, to add to the notes we seem to
be assembling about differences between classical Attic and Koine usage (a
point I mentioned a few months back when we were talking about MELLEI in
synoptic apocalyptic passages): MELLW originally means "intend, have a mind
(to);" in classical Attic it is normally used with a FUTURE infinitive
where it is functioning as a synonym for a future tense, e.g.
TAUTA POIHSW = TAUTA MELLW POIHSEIN,
but in Koine TAUTA MELLW POIEIN would normally mean the same thing;
however, in classical Attic MELLW with a PRESENT infinitive usually means
"claim to be about to do something but fail to follow through with it =
hesitate, delay." This is found in exchanges in Sophocles like (this is in
the Oedipus Tyrannus, but I don't remember the exact text):
TAUTA PANTA SOI DIHGHSOMAI, "I'll explain all this to you ..."
TI OUN MELLEIS (scil. DIHGHSASQAI), "Well then, what are you
waiting for/why are you delaying (to explain)?"
>BDF had a very sketchy (& not very helpful!) discussion of periphrastics.
>I've not pursued other sources at this point. (I have cross-posted this to
>both b-greek and the Gk grammar list [the latter of which has been
>seemingly defunct lately--unless I've gotten unsubscribed from it also! :)
>].
It seems to me that this whole area of periphrastics falls somewhere within
that gray area between "Grammar" as a description of "normal" usage and
"Idiom" as observed not to be uncommon usage. And I fear it's the sort of
thing one can only really pick up a sense of by reading voluminously--which
is why I think voluminous reading of Greek texts (or texts of whatever
language one is trying to learn) is an absolute imperative for serious
students of Greek (or whatever).
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University
One Brookings Drive, St. Louis, MO, USA 63130
(314) 935-4018
cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu OR cwc@oui.com
WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
------------------------------
From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu>
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 09:06:53 -0600
Subject: Re: Classical and Koine Differences
Here's another of those little things I notice from time to time to be so
frequent in NT reading that, upon reflection, I think they are patterns of
developing usage:
hOSOS (-H, -ON) may be used without any sense whatsoever of quantity (such
as it usually has in classical Attic) as a substitute or equivalent of the
relative pronoun.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University
One Brookings Drive, St. Louis, MO, USA 63130
(314) 935-4018
cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu OR cwc@oui.com
WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
------------------------------
From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu>
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 09:07:12 -0600
Subject: Learned Babble _sive_ Babel (long and foolish)
In view of the fact that recent exertions in the great flame war over
Inerrancy petered out ultimately into what may only be termed "learned and
luxurious levity" at the expense of the pygmied Bildad the Shuhite, I am
taking the liberty of forwarding to b-greek the learned nonsense of
participants in a "sister" list, by which I do not mean a list of
"sisters," ecclesiastical or otherwise, namely Classics. Those who are
innocent of Latin (if it is possible to be innocent in that respect) will
not, I believe, find their ignorance an impediment to appreciation of the
thread herebelow reproduced. Remembering that George Bernard Shaw once
advised, "Do not do unto others as you would have them do unto you,
becauses tastes differ," I pray that all may be blessed with a healthy
sense of humor. I, at least, find this thread utterly hilarious.
=46orwarded material:
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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 00:34:36 -0800
=46rom: mcmenomy@halcyon.com (Bruce McMenomy)
To: classics@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: courses taught in Latin?
Brian Lund asks:
>By the way, what was meant by "Toto, vir nox in Kansas animo" in Nicholas
>Winton's letter of 6 Dec? Is it just a phonological joke, or is there
>actually something to it?
>
<Toto, vir nox in Kansas animo [est]>:
This is just one of the over-wrought lines from the now mostly-forgotten
tragedy _Kansa_ (based on an original by Hippoplectus of Alexandria,
sometimes called "The Stupid") in the translation of Seneca the Very Young.
The form 'Kansas' is explained by the fact that the wee Seneca was showing
off by trying to retain a Greek genitive. As near as we can piece together
the evidence, the young Kansa had been ravished by a ne'er-do-well uncle,
and by the end of the play earns the well-known epithet "Bloody Kansa"
through her terrible but misdirected vengeance upon her nephew. ("Medea?"
said Gilbert Murray once to an undergraduate. "A piker next to Kansa,
believe me.") Prior to these actions, however, toward the middle of the
play, she has a long scene in which she apparently sits brooding and silent
on stage for several hundred lines. (Actually she speaks no lines
throughout the entire play, leaving her presence on stage to be intuited
from the dialogue that takes place around her.) After trying to offer
consolation, and being interrupted three times by Kansa's wordless but
metrically ornate outbursts, her maid helpfully sums up (in Dryden's
galloping rendition):
"The brooding season's bleakest blight
Gnaws at her self-control:
In all, it is a man who is
The night in Kansa's soul."
The Latin forms of these lines, preserved by one or two late-Latin
grammarians, are mercifully all that remains of this curious but colossally
tasteless play. Dryden, of course, strove manfully to reconstruct the
remainder of the play from these lines, and succeeded with his usual
aplomb.
There has been in scholarly circles some discussion about whether the
original line does or does not include the final 'est', which would make it
trivially easier to construe. Manuscript evidence varies, and it is
impossible to determine either on semantic grounds (since the meaning is
clear and unaffected by the matter), or on metrical grounds (since the
'est' would elide without altering the length of the final syllable.)
Therefore, after three German classics departments noisily split over the
issue in the spring of 1891, each citing "Sprachgef=FChl" as its chief
argument, it was agreed that this should be left as a nugget for
dissertations. To date only one student has risen to the challenge, and
that was L. Frank Baum, who decided after years of tail-chasing toil to
pursue another line of work. But the issue troubled him to the end of his
days. Like Kansa herself, he took a misdirected vengeance upon the world,
and wrote _The Wizard of Oz_ chiefly for the sake of working in this arch
allusion. By a peculiar twist of fate, Baum's editor, detecting his
purposes, struck the line, as being inappropriate for younger audiences (in
an age when children were still learning Latin); the 1939 Judy Garland
extravaganza, however, restored the line in perhaps its only attempt to
capture the intent of the author. The editors of the later Oz books did
not get as much opportunity to tamper with the text of the now-famous
author; in fact, the rest of Baum's Oz books contain similar obscure
references. Can you find them?
- -- Bruce
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Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 08:42:06 -0700
=46rom: Elizabeth Vandiver <vandiver@hass.usu.edu>
To: classics@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Toto vir nox ... and Seneca
Toto, vir nox in Kansas animo [est]>
In his otherwise magisterial posting on the too little known play "Kansa"
("the Bloody"), Bruce McMenomy oddly overlooked an obvious cipher
encrypted in the line quoted above. If we ignore vowels and look only at
the consonants, we have TTVRNXNKNSSNM. Surely only the most
obtuse could fail to see the obvious message:
Vae te, Nero! Seneka sum; non exit.
This line is most commonly rendered "Nuts to you, Nero! I'm Seneca, and
he ain't leaving." (Scholars are, of course, divided over whether the
"he" refers to Seneca himself or to some other, unidentified person.)
I bring this up, not in any way to denigrate the learned Dr. McMenomy's
scholarship, but only because it seems important to recognize that there
is more to the play *Kansa* than one might at first think. Far from being a
youthful lapse in taste, this play is obviously a mature work, a brilliantly
crafted expose of the corruption in the Julio-Claudian family, and should
be recognized as Seneca's last attempt to control his erstwhile pupil. I 'm
sure others can contribute more evidence ...
Elizabeth Vandiver
(who'll spend time on just about ANYTHING other than grading!)
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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 10:09:24 -0600
=46rom: pmgreen@mail.utexas.edu (Peter M. Green)
To: classics@u.washington.edu
Subject: Kansa
In his learned exegesis of this now seldom-studied work, Bruce McMenomy
unaccountably omits the textual emendation by Fraenkel that potentially
threw the whole tradition into question, and was certainly known to Baum:
lurking in the apparatus of his 1939 recension---the arsenals of divine
vengeance, as Housman once, with less reason, termed the Bodleian--we find
the deadly little entry: [*Kansa* codd.; *Kanga* Fraenkel , fortasse
recte.] Readers of *Winnie Ille Pu* will at once see the potential
significance for the evaluation of the tradition.
Peter Green
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Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 13:57:19 -0500
Reply-To: classics@u.washington.edu
Sender: CLASSICS-owner@u.washington.edu
Precedence: bulk
=46rom: "Jenny S. Clay" <jsc2t@faraday.clas.virginia.edu>
To: classics@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Kansa
Status:
I hate to impugn Peter Green or Fraenkel, bot I have had the
oportunity to collate Bod. 1249783 (Ogouashius) and have
discovered a unique v.l. :kango omega.
JSC
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Date: Fri, 08 Dec 95 11:50:17 PST
=46rom: Michael Chase <GOYA@UVVM.UVic.CA>
To: classics@u.washington.edu
Subject: Kansas and Seneca
Dear friends,
I am somewhat disappointed by the recent discussion on this List of that
unknown masterwork _Kansa_. One might think, judging by all the outmoded
philological considerations which have been adduced, that the List was un-
aware of the most recent and cutting-edge trends of Continental scholar-
ship. It has long since been recognized that the reading *Kansa* *must*
be emended to *KansO* - regardless of what the *text* actually *says* - as
if the repressed and ideologically incapable scribes of the Middle Ages
had not been forced by patriarchal authoritarianism deliberately to fal-
sify the manuscript "evidence". It leaps to the eye, moreover, that KansO
is a demoted mother-goddess; as Jean Bollack has pointed out in a seminal
article in _Foutaises_ (vol. 79, no. 348, annee 1995): the name of the
demoted mother-goddess *BaubO* also ends in omega! Moreover, Derrida,
picking up on a suggestion by Foucault (unpublished overheard Parisian
cafe telephone conversation, June-July 1964) has convincingly shown -pace
the reactionary objections of Habermas - that KansO *is* The Repressed
(a meaning the word carries in proto-Ugaritic) while her uncle "is"
Repression, whether we speak of the ideological depersonalization in-
trinsically and innately inherent in any "society" so oppressive as that
of Rome (or was it Greece? Peu importe..), or whether we are, perhaps
simultaneously, or even in a non-diachronicative sense, envisageing the
necessarily subordinate role of women when faced with their ineluctable
de-autonomisation *qua* substantifications of their essence (cf. Derrida,
_De la grammatologie, de mon chien, et de tout ce qui va me faire paraitre
hyper-intello_, Paris: Editions du milieu de la nuit, 16 vols., 1968ff.).
Yes, KansO takes her rightful revenge at the end of Seneca's immortal
yet deliberately suppressed masterwork - as well she should - in a scene
a scene of mass castration and disembowelling which is said to have made
Bataille retch, and can perhaps only be compared, in the annals of proto-
revolutionary theatre, with the Carthaginian love-goddess cAnat's relent-
less slaughter of her entourage. When staged as a play by Cocteau in the
early thirties, Seneca's exquisitely brutal, yet sensitive masterwork sent
progressive elements amongst both crtics and audience into ideologically
justifiable transports of ecstasy. Who can ever forget the final scene, in
which a trimuphant KansO, neck-deep in blood, the necklace formed of the
severed members of her patriarchist foes gleaming about her throat, cries ou=
t
"J'y suis et j'y reste"! (as translated by Stravinsky: "I am Swiss and I'm
spending the night!").
I would have much more to say on this theme, but my baker has just phoned
to tell me my baguette is ready.....
A la prochaine - et Vive KansO! -
Michael Chase.
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Date: Fri, 08 Dec 1995 22:56:33 -0700 (MST)
=46rom: FEROMER@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU
To: classics@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Kansa and Hippoplectus
Please! Let common sense prevail!
1. "animo" < animus =3D anima =3D Grk. psyche =3D "butterfly"
2. Note the fourth letter in each word occupies exactly that
position and no other. "Toto" is not really an exception
since it contains, in fact, two o's, not one, and hence the
second must be in fourth position (note the caesura). This
is, after all, the most famous case of Milvius' Bridge.
(N.b. The corollary also holds: words of three orthographic
positions or fewer do not have a fourth unless a fifth is
present too.)
3. Also, since the first o in "Toto" is radical, and the second
is finial, this is only an apparent, not a true case of a
reduplicated vocative.
4. In cases of anti-hephthemimeral caesura (as here, placed after
the fourth orthographic position instead of after the first
metrical position of the fourth foot), *cola ridicula* and
*dicola ridicula* REQUIRE syncretic, not synchronic syntagms.
=46inally, but with some trepidation, may I make a prosopographical
suggestion? Hippoplectus must have lived in Parthia and been a
descendant of that Apoplectus the Stupid who founded the
Alexandropolis in Parthia. Pseudo-Pseustes was a Parthian, wrote
a "Parthika," and used the word *Parthikos* at least once in the
now-lost "Skythika" (in the famous passage cited by Ioannes Tzetzes,
where *. . . . . . . s* has been restored as *Parthikos*). Once the
recognition of the biographical fallacy (cp. Ps.-Pseust., *Hipp.* 4.2-3)
eliminates Alexandria in Egypt as H.'s *locus operandi*, then all the
Alexandrias (or at least the 18 identifiable ones--19 if you count the
*Rhesus*) must also be eliminated. Besides, *Alexandreia* will not do as
an emendation of *ALEXANDROPOL.S* in P.OxyMoron 722.13, where the
dot stands for the bottom of the iota-stroke, which was, in fact,
more on than off when Strobius read the fragment in 1763--before
the discovery of the Rosetta Stone confirmed that a single downward
stroke (I) *could*, in certain circumstances, be taken as an iota (cp.
also CIP XIII, 13.97, and perhaps XIV, 97.13 as well). If so, then
Hippoplectus the Stupid is a direct descendant of Apoplectus the
Stupid, who founded Alexandropolis (which should have been named
Alexandria, after all). There were two men called Apoplectus the
Stupid, and both founded a city called Alexandropolis. Both were
also called "the right hand of Alexander", although one is known to
have been left-handed (PIA 768). What made them "Apoplectus" was that
no contemporary was known to have recognized that the more westerly
(or left) Alexandropolis was west (or left) of the Borysthenes Flumen
(Dnepr River), while the more easterly (or right) Alexandropolis was east
(or right) of the Mare Caspium. Thus, we have the neat solution to an elega=
nt
Alexandrian puzzle: the right solution (i.e. that the western Alexandropolis
is on the left) means that the other Alexandropolis was left on the right.
Thus, left-handed Apoplectus founded right-most Alexandropolis, and
right-handed Apoplectus founded left-most Alexandropolis. Our
Hippoplectus is the descendant of left-handed Apoplectus. However
"stupid" it was for H. to introduce into the original *Kansa* the
King of Aria (cp. frag. 3 [soon to be published]), it was deliberate.
(N.b. Frag. 3 will be published before frag. 2 [not yet discovered].
I follow the numbering of Surus.)
Ridiculus Mus
(a Mac user)
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Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 11:46:06 -0500 (EST)
=46rom: Ronnie Ancona <rancona@shiva.hunter.cuny.edu>
To: classics@u.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Kansa and Hippoplectus
On Fri, 8 Dec 1995 FEROMER@CCIT.ARIZONA.EDU wrote:
> > 3. Also, since the first o in "Toto" is radical, and the second
> is finial, this is only an apparent, not a true case of a
> reduplicated vocative.
>
a "finial" o? how decorative!
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Date: Sat, 09 Dec 1995 11:36:17 EST
=46rom: "McMahon, John M" <mcmahon@lemoyne.edu>
To: CLASSICS@U.WASHINGTON.EDU
Subject: Milvius' Bridge
Among many insightful comments, it has been noted:
"*Toto* is not really an exception
since it contains, in fact, two o's, not one, and hence the
second must be in fourth position (note the caesura). This
is, after all, the most famous case of Milvius' Bridge."
This is especially so here because of the gap between
the two dentals.
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Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 18:24:10 -0700
=46rom: pepper@bvsd.k12.co.us (Timothy Pepper)
To: classics@u.washington.edu
Subject: Kansa and Hippoplectus
> This is just one of the over-wrought lines from the now mostly-forgotten
>tragedy _Kansa_ (based on an original by Hippoplectus of Alexandria,
>sometimes called "The Stupid") in the translation of Seneca the Very Young.
I am told that a copy of the original play by Hippoplectus (who
incidentally is now thought not to be from Alexandria, Egypt, but Alexandria
in the Kingdom of Aria, modern day Herat) was found about twenty years ago
by a graduate student in the lining of a leather jacket he bought in Cairo.
Unfortunately, the suitcase in which he put the jacket was lost in a
connection through Paris and has not been found to date. All that the
graduate student could remember about the text is that Hippoplectus himself
appears as a character in the play, extolling his merits at combining comedy
and tragedy in a single play, and begging for the prize in both tragedy and
comedy in the year's combined competition. We are told by his biographer,
pseudo-Pseustes, that Hippoplectus gave the name of the King of Aria to
Kansa's uncle as part of the "comedy" of the play, leading to his swift
execution and earning him the epithet "The Stupid." The loss of this work
is a great one, for it would have revealed the extent of Hellenization in
literature at the fringes of Alexander's Empire.
As with all of Seneca's "translations," *Kansa* was heavily adapted,
including the addition (as several later sources tell us) of a gladiator
show, several unintellible rhetorical speeches by Kansa, and the mauling of
a slave on stage by an agitated poodle.
Vale! Tim Pepper
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University
One Brookings Drive, St. Louis, MO, USA 63130
(314) 935-4018
cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu OR cwc@oui.com
WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
------------------------------
From: "Maurice A. O'Sullivan" <mauros@iol.ie>
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 17:09:48 +0000
Subject: Re: Classical and Koine Greek
Rod:
Your wrote ( Sat, 9 Dec 1995 22:01:53 -0600 )
>A recent volume that collates a number of classic essays on this topic is:
>_The Language of the New Testament: Classic Essays._ JSNT supp.
>series # 60. Edited by Stanley E. Porter. Sheffield: JSOT Press, 1991.
Back in September 94 your were a major contributor on this topic, going to
the trouble of posting excerpts ( condensed ) from various chapters of the
above book.
I was very impressed at the time, so much so that I compiled a 40 Kb file of
postings, compressed it to 15 Kb with PKZIP 2.04g, and uploaded it as a file
to the Greek/Latin section of the Foreign Languaga Forum on CompuServe.
Now, I have downloaded that compilation<g>
In case you, like myself, hadn't stored all this material, I can make it
available to you, or anyone else on the list.
If only a few are interested, I can e-mail it privately.
If more than a few are interested, I can post it as an attachement to a
message to the list.
I can MIME encode, or UUENCODE it, or even BINHEX.
Just let me know.
Regards,
Maurice
Maurice A. O'Sullivan [ Bray, Ireland ]
mauros@iol.ie
[using Eudora Pro v 2.1.2 ]
------------------------------
From: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu>
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 19:20:57 -0600
Subject: Re: Periphrastics
>From: dwashbur@nyx10.cs.du.edu (David Washburn)
>X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
> of Denver. The University has neither control over nor
> responsibility for the opinions or correct identity of users.
>Subject: Re: Periphrastics
>To: cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu (Carl W. Conrad)
>Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 13:14:52 -0700 (MST)
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Status:
>
>It seems that the first thing we must do here is define our terms,
>because several grammarians that Rod cited appear to use the term
>"periphrastic" in a broader sense than those grammarians that insist a
>periphrastic only occurs with EIMI. Rather than begin wih a definition
>of my own, I'll just throw this out and hope it starts a discussion...
>
>--
>Dave
> http://nox.cs.du.edu:8001/~dwashbur/home.html
>Faith is a verb.
>
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University
One Brookings Drive, St. Louis, MO, USA 63130
(314) 935-4018
cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu OR cwc@oui.com
WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
------------------------------
From: rrilea <rrilea@cnw.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:26:56 -0800
Subject: Translations/difinitions
While studying Ephesians 1:1 I came across three words that I am not
familiar with and I could not find them in either "Mastering Greek
Vocabulary" by Thomas A Robinson or "Lexical Aids For Students of New
Testament Greek" by Bruce M. Metzger. I am hoping that someone will be
able to help me translate/define the following words:
TOIS
hAGIOIS
OUSIN
Thanks ahead of time for the help.
Rod Rilea
------------------------------
From: Carlton Winbery <winberyc@popalex1.linknet.net>
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 21:10:10 +0400
Subject: John 5:39-40
John 5:39 ERAUNATE TAS GRAFAS, hOTI hUMEIS DOKEITE EN AUTAIS ZWHN AIWNION
EXEIN KAI EKEINAI EISIN hAI MARTUROUSAI PERI EMOU 40 KAI OU QELETE ELQEIN
PROS ME hINA ZWHN EXHTE.
"You search the Scriptures because _you_ think that you have life in them
_but_ these are that which bears witness to me and you do not wish to come
to me so that you may have life."
Can the first KAI have the function of a mild adversative like DE? Is not
there a contrast between the fact that they hoped to find life in the
Scriptures and Jesus' claim in John that life was to be found in himself?
The function that he assigns to Scripture then is to witness to him in whom
life was to be found.
Is this a possible reading of this sentence?
Calton L. Winbery
Prof. Religion
LA College, Pineville, La
winberyc@popalex1.linknet.net
------------------------------
From: Carlton Winbery <winberyc@popalex1.linknet.net>
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 21:44:50 +0400
Subject: Re: Translations/difinitions
>While studying Ephesians 1:1 I came across three words that I am not
>familiar with and I could not find them in either "Mastering Greek
>Vocabulary" by Thomas A Robinson or "Lexical Aids For Students of New
>Testament Greek" by Bruce M. Metzger. I am hoping that someone will be
>able to help me translate/define the following words:
>
> TOIS
> hAGIOIS
> OUSIN
>
>Thanks ahead of time for the help.
TOIS is the article in the masculine dative plural found in the lexicon as hO.
hAGIOIS is the adjective in the masculine dative plural. With the article
refers to "the saints."
OUSIN is the masculine dative participle from EIMI. With the article TOIS
means "to those who are . . ." If the words in brackets (EN EFESWi) are
original, then "to those who are in Ephesus." If not then "to those who
are also faithful."
Calton L. Winbery
Prof. Religion
LA College, Pineville, La
winberyc@popalex1.linknet.net
------------------------------
From: "Wes C. Williams" <71414.3647@compuserve.com>
Date: 11 Dec 95 00:01:39 EST
Subject: Translations/difinitions
<< TOIS
hAGIOIS
OUSIN >>
Dative Case
TOIS = (to) the
hAGIOS = holy (ones), or saints
OUSIN = being (present active participle plural)
In other words,
Paul, ... to the holy ones who are in Ephesus ...
Sincerely,
Wes Williams
------------------------------
End of b-greek-digest V1 #41
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