From: Joe A. Friberg (JoeFriberg@email.msn.com)
Date: Mon Dec 20 1999 - 01:58:40 EST
----- Original Message -----
From: <dixonps@juno.com>
>
> On Sun, 19 Dec 1999 16:11:27 -0600 "Carl W. Conrad"
> <cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu> writes:
> > At 2:18 PM -0800 12/19/99, dixonps@juno.com wrote (inter alia):
>
> > >It would seem better to understand it to mean that the one who desires
> > >to save his YUCH at the higher or spiritual level must lose it or be
> > >willing to lose it (AUTHN) at the lower or physical level.
> >
> > The one thing I'd be wary of here is precisely what is indicated by
> > translators' hesitation at using the same English word for YUCH in both
> > instances: I don't think that one ought to attempt on the basis of
> > this to try to extrapolate an anthropological doctrine of two souls,
> higher
> > and lower levels, consistently used in the Synoptic gospels. The
> > fluidity of the usage of YUCH in the GNT, it seems to me, pretty much
> precludes
> > that; I'd refer again to the lengthy and complex entries on YUCH in
> Louw
> > and Nida.
>
> How, then, do you interpret these verses, or is this out of bounds on the
> list?
>
> Paul Dixon
1. This question could easily go outside the list bounds. That is one of
the reasons that in my initial post I gave several pairs of suggestive
alternatives for the two nuances of YUCH found in 8.35 :-) :
>- a lower and higher life, or
>- temporal vs. eternal life, or
>- present life only vs. life continuing to afterlife.
Choosing a specific alternative is likely going to depend on the theology
and anthropology of choice perceived to be relevant to this context
(Biblical Greek, NT, Gospel, Synoptic, Mark, sayings of Jesus).
The specific content of this verse and the immediately surrounding context
somewhat narrow the possible meanings for YUCH in this passage from the
range of meanings for YUCH that Carl has referenced, but still leaves quite
a bit of latitude.
2. It might be possible to narrow the possible range for YUCH in this
passage somewhat by considering its usage in Mk, but I have done no legwork
here and cannot offer anything specific in this area, so I made my
suggestions in an inclusive fashion.
3. More importantly, however, I do not think the nature of this passage
lends itself to a clinically precise delineation of the limits of YUCH.
Jesus' words are not so much theological explication as they are a
rhetorical call for sacrificial living. 8.34 issues the call for disciples
to take up their individual crosses. 8.35 continues the image of dying on
their own cross with the result that they will actually find their lives
saved. The reversal of expectations motif is applied because from God's
perspective, there are more and more important things than what merely meets
the eye. But as to specifics, I think the metaphors leave room for many
applications, and I think this is the point of the passage; it is not meant
to teach a particular view of life and afterlife, etc. Not that such
particular views are not to be taught; just not from this passage. Several
levels of application would include:
- for a missionary and son burned in their car in India, they lost their
lives for the sake of spreading the Gospel, and have entered into eternal
life.
- for martyrs in Sudan, they have refused to revile Christ, lost their
lives, and entered into eternal life with Christ.
- for Christians who have undergone physical persecution in beatings, etc.,
in China, they have suffered physically but experienced comfort from God and
joy in their spirit.
- for those who have chosen to serve the Lord in underpaid ministry
capacities, they have exchanged worldy compensation for joy and contentment.
- for the single mother who labors day and night to feed and clothe her
family, to care for and love them, to raise them in the fear and admonition
of the Lord, she has exchanged self-seeking goals for other-seeking goals,
but receives back joy and satisfaction both now, in the years to come, and
in eternity.
- for all disciples, this is a call to love not this life and the pleasures
it offers, but to love the Lord, his service, and other people more, with
the promise that sacrifice made now will bring benefits and joy in times to
come.
- this is also parallel with Jesus who gave his life, won it back in his
resurrection (8.31), and gained our lives eternal as well!
A relatively broad range of meaning of YUCH can encompass these and other
situations, and circumvents the the need for overly nailing down the
specific senses of YUCH. Hope this helps!
God Bless, and Merry Christmas!
Joe A. Friberg
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