From: Carl W. Conrad (cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu)
Date: Thu Apr 06 2000 - 06:28:48 EDT
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--></style><title>Fwd: Re: hOUTWS ... hWSTE (To
Carl)</title></head><body>
<div>Moon-Ryul Jung has asked that I forward this off-list response
which I sent him to his last message on this thread. It's essentially
a highlighting of items in an earlier message of mine in the thread
on hOUTWS in John 3:16.</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>From: "Moon Ryul Jung"
<moon@saint.soongsil.ac.kr><br>
To: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu><br>
Subject: Re: hOUTWS ... hWSTE (To Carl)</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 07:10:20
+0900</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font size="-1">Carl, thanks for your
comments.</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font size="-1">Yes, these two examples
are what I sought for. I have read all of your posts
in</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font size="-1">this thread. I think
these two examples, especialy the first one, will</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font size="-1">affect the listers' mind
greatly. This thread was one of very informative
lessons.</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font size="-1">Thanks again for your
insight. This kind of learning experience and
excitement</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font size="-1">was not common in
my journey to the study of the biblical
languages.</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font size="-1">I hope that you would
share these examples with other members.</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font
size="-1">Moon </font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Moon-Ryul Jung<br>
Associate Professor<br>
Dept of Digital Media<br>
Sogang University,<br>
Seoul, Korea<br>
<blockquote>----- Original Message -----</blockquote>
<blockquote><b>From:</b> <a
href="mailto:cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu">Carl W.
Conrad</a></blockquote>
<blockquote><b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:moon@saint.soongsil.ac.kr">Moon-Ryul
Jung</a></blockquote>
<blockquote><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 05, 2000 9:39
PM</blockquote>
<blockquote><b>Subject:</b> RE: hOUTWS ... hWSTE (To
Carl)</blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote>OFF-LIST:</blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote>Dear Moon, I'm writing this off-list as I think the
matter may be getting tedious for list-members who've already settled
the matter for themselves, and also because the only response I can
offer you is from Sunday, April 2 in a reply to Jason that you may
have missed. The fact is that there aren't that many instances of
this construction in the GNT although it's common enough in classical
Attic and, although I haven't done a search in extra-biblical Koine
Greek texts, I suspect it's not less common there.</blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote>At 4:36 AM -0500 4/5/00, Moon-Ryul Jung
wrote:</blockquote>
<blockquote>>Dear Carl,<br>
><br>
>I am inclined to your logic in this matter. Your point is:<br>
><br>
>Another way to phrase the difference between your way of reading
John 3:16<br>
>and my way is to say that yours emphasizes a semantic
relationship between<br>
>hOUTWS and adverbial antecedents implicit or explicit in what
preceded,<br>
>whereas mine emphasize a syntactic relationship between hOUTWS
and hWSTE.<br>
><br>
>The issue could be easily resolved by finding examples where
there are no</blockquote>
<blockquote>>implicit or explicit antecedents for hOUTWS. Could
you find some?</blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote>The only such instance with hOUTWS and hWSTE is Acts
14:1<font color="#007700"> (EGENETO DE IN IKONIWi KATA TO AUTO
EISELQEIN AUTOUS EIS THN SUNAGWGHN TWN IOUDAIWN KAI
LALHSAI</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#007700">h O U T W S h W S T E
PISTEUSAI IOUDAIWN TE KAI hELLHNWN POLU PLHQOS. = "And it
happened in Iconium at the same time that they entered into the
synagogue of the Jews and spoke such that a sizable throng of both
Jews and Greeks came to faith.")</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote>The other GNT instances cited below show TOSOUTOI rather
than hOUTWS as the introductory word in the main clause, and hWSTE or
another sort of result-clause (such as hOPWS ... in 1 Cor 6:5. There
is no conceivable antecedent in either instance; what I'm arguing is
that the demonstrative in the main introductory clause functions
syntactically to point ahead to the result clause: "SO MANY
loaves ... AS TO feed so great a throng" or "SO WISE ...
THAT HE will be able to judge ..." (where the relative pronoun
hOS is equivalent to hWSTE AUTON + inf.).</blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote>At 1:04 PM -0500 4/2/00, Carl W. Conrad wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>At 4:54 AM -0500 4/2/00, Jason Hare
wrote:<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>>cc: ´My own sense here is rather that hOUTWS ...
hWSTE constitutes a<br>
>standard "consecutive" pattern having an emphatic
adverb in an initial<br>
>clause followed by hWSTE with an infinitive or an indicative verb
in a<br>
>result clause.ª<br>
><br>
>Are there any other instances that you can give of this kind of
use. That<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>>might be interesting to note. Thanks.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><br></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#007700">The classical construction is a
simpler one with hOUTWS or some other qualitative or quantitative
adverbial expression (e.g. TOSOUTOS/H/O or TOIOUTOS/H/O either
modifying the verb or an adjective or another verb in the main clause
and a hWSTE introducing either a finite verb clause (for an ACTUAL
result) or an infinitive (for a NATURAL or PROBABLE result). There
are also some less frequent variants to this pattern. Cf. Smyth's
grammar, ##2273-2278.</font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font
color="#007700">(http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/tex
></span>t?lookup=smyth+2273&vers=english&browse=1<span
></span>) and LSJ hOUTWS III<br>
(http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/lex
></span>index?lookup=ou(/tws&lang=greek)</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#007700">In the GNT the pattern is less
consistent; there may be hWSTE as in John 3:16 or in Acts 14:1
(EGENETO DE IN IKONIWi KATA TO AUTO EISELQEIN AUTOUS EIS THN
SUNAGWGHN TWN IOUDAIWN KAI LALHSAI h O U T W S h W S T E
PISTEUSAI IOUDAIWN TE KAI hELLHNWN POLU PLHQOS. = "And it
happened in Iconium at the same time that they entered into the
synagogue of the Jews and spoke such that a sizable throng of both
Jews and Greeks came to faith.") or Matthew 15:33 (KAI LEGOUSIN
AUTWi hOI MAQHTAI: POQEN hHMIN EN ERHMIAi ARTOI T O S O U T O
I h W S T E CORTASAI OCLON TOSOUTON. = "And his
disciples say to him, 'Where do we have in the wilderness loaves
sufficient to feed a crowd this large?'")<br>
<br>
or there may be a hOPWS clause, as in Matthew 5:16 (h O U T W S
LAMYATW TO FWS hUMWN EMPROSQEN TWN ANQRWPWN, h O P W S IDWSIN hUMWN
TA KALA ERGA KAI DOXASWSIN TON PATERA hUMWN TON EN TOIS
OURANOIS, = "Let your light so shine before people that
they see your good works and glorify your father in
heaven.")</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#007700"><br></font></blockquote>
<blockquote><font color="#007700">or there may be a relative clause
functioning to indicate the result, as in 1 Cor 6:5 (h O U T W
S OUK ENI EN hUMIN OUDEIS S O F O S, h O S DUNHSETAI
DIAKRINAI ANA MESON TOU ADELFOU AUTOU? = "Is there nobody so
wise amongst you that he won't be able to judge a
matter?")</font><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
Carl W. Conrad<br>
Department of Classics/Washington University<br>
One Brookings Drive/St. Louis, MO, USA 63130/(314) 935-4018<br>
Home: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649<br>
cwconrad@artsci.wustl.edu <br>
WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/>
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