From: CWestf5155@aol.com
Date: Tue Jan 09 2001 - 12:33:37 EST
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From: CWestf5155@aol.com
Full-name: CWestf5155
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Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 12:31:55 EST
Subject: Re: [b-greek] Meaning of the perfect tense
To: johanan@juno.com
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In a message dated 01/09/2001 8:05:00 AM Mountain Standard Time,
johanan@juno.com writes:
> n using my Greek for teaching and preaching, I always want to say as
> much as I can, but not too much (e.g. "the aorist here means
> once-for-all"). When I first learned Greek, I learned that the perfect
> tense indicates "completed action with abiding results." As I've studied
> further, I find Stanley Porter saying, "the action is conceived of by the
> language user as reflecting a given (often complex) state of affairs"
> (_Idioms of the Greek New Testament_ p. 22). My question--what can I say
> about the occurence of a perfect tense (e.g. "the perfect tense here
> indicates . . ."), and what would be going to far? I've been reading
> through John, so here's an example:
>
> John 5:24
> AMHN AMHN LEGW hUMIN hOTI hO TON LOGON MOU AKOUWN KAI PISTEUWN TWi
> PEMYANTI ME ECEI ZWHN AIWNION KAI EIS KRISIN OUK ERCETAI, ALLA
> *METABEBHKEN* EK TOU QANATOU EIS THN ZWHN.
>
> What could I legitimately say about the *tense* of METABEBHKEN (so that
> the average church attender would understand)?
>
I agree with all that Rod said in his post. What remains is the 'so
what'--and how it may relate to the example that you chose.
Aspect indicates the author's choice of a verb to convey a given perspective.
In your given example, it would have been possible to convey the meaning of
transfer with an aorist, and it still would not be semantically inconsistent
with an existing state. It would have been possible to convey the meaning of
transfer with a present (and that would make it structurally connected to the
presents ECEI ZWHN AIWNION and EIS KRISIN OUK ERCETAI).
The use of the perfect in portraying an existing state/condition is marked,
which is consistent with various discussions about the 'intensive' perfect or
the 'dramatic' perfect. Together with the contrast signalled by ALLA, the use
of the perfect throws the focus or emphasis of the comparison and the entire
verse (really three sentences) on the existing state represented in ALLA
METABEBHKEN EK TOU QANATOU EIS THN ZWHN. This is the information that the
author wanted to stress--this existing state is what is really important in a
group of sentences that are marked with AMEN AMEN LEGW hUMIN--that would
indicate significant emphasis (prominence).
How does this differ from the traditional view? Well, if this perfect is
'completed action with abiding results' then with the use of the perfect, one
would be able to infer and import into the statement the 'once saved always
saved' concept, as Reinecker does in reference to Schnackenburg does in I Jn.
3:14 (METABEBHKAMEN EK TOU QANATOU EIS THN ZWHN): "The perfect tense
indicates the permanency of the step of salvation". So perseverance of the
saints could be born out by the tense if the traditional view is applied
here. But as Rod indicated, 'this has gone too far and read pragmatic
factors into the semantic value'. In other words, this passage is not about
the perseverance of the saints, and the grammar does not assume it.
Another instance of METABAINW in Jn. 13:1 is interesting: EIDWS hO IHSOUS
hOTI HLQEN AUTOU hH hWRA hINA METABHi EK TOU KOSMOU TOUTOU PROS TON PATERA.
Granted, this is an apples to oranges comparison since it occurs in a purpose
clause that requires a subjunctive, and perfect subjunctives that don't
involve OIDA are rare. But I still think that this is consistent with the
idea that an aorist can be used to refer to an action that is demonstrably
linked with an existing state/condition.
Cindy Westfall
PhD student, Roehampton
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