From: GregStffrd@aol.com
Date: Wed May 16 2001 - 01:29:10 EDT
In a message dated 05/15/2001 10:00:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jlupia2@excite.com writes:
<< GS: Revelation 3:14 does not say this at all, but that the Amen is hH ARCH
THS KTISEWS TOU QEOU. If, then, as you say, the Amen is the "first principle
and cause of all things," how is it that the apostle says that he is the
ARCH THS
KTISEWS ****TOU QEOU****?
I do not say the Amen is the "first principle and cause of all things," you
have misread what I wrote. What I read Apoc 3,14b as saying is the Amen is
God's eternal "Yes" that faithfully witnesses to God as the eternal creator.
>>>
Dear John:
I must admit it never occurred to me that you (or anyone else for that
matter) would offer such a view, and I did misunderstand your translation.
You wrote:
In a message dated 05/15/2001 7:34:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jlupia2@excite.com writes:
<< IMHO: The Amen, the faithful and true witness, says these things of God,
the
first principle and cause of all things. >>
I can now see that you believe that Amen says "these things of God." But I do
not understand how you get to this conclusion. You explained:
<< I see the final clause TOU QEOU as the object of the first TADE LEGEI. I
see hH ARCE THS KTISEWS to read "the first principle and cause of all things
(creation)." as the action of God to which the Amen bears a faithful and
true witness to. >>
Thank you for clarifying your view, which, again, is:
<< The Amen, the faithful and true witness, says these things of God, the
first
principle and cause of all things. >>
Now, before I get to the grammatical problems I find with the above, just
what "things" does the AMHN say about God? It seems very clear that what the
AMHN says begins in verse 15, and since that is the case your translation is
essentially impossible.
But I assume you have some explanation for this otherwise you would not have
offered it, so I will wait to hear how you explain this and then we can
discuss it and some other grammatical concerns I have with your view.
Also, if you plan on continuing the discussion please do not forget my other
remarks about the core issues in your post, as they relate to your use of
Aristotle.
Best regards,
Greg Stafford
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